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From the manifesto: > But it is obvious that modern [REDACTED] philoso- phers are not simply cool-headed logicians systematically analyzing the foundations of

From the manifesto: > But it is obvious that modern [REDACTED] philoso- phers are not simply cool-headed logicians systematically analyzing the foundations of knowledge. They are deeply involved emotionally in their attack on truth and reality. They attack these concepts because of their own psycho- logical needs. For one thing, their attack is an outlet for hostility, and, to the extent that it is successful, it satis- fies the drive for power. More importantly, the [REDACTED] hates science and rationality because they classify certain beliefs as true (i.e., successful, superior) and other beliefs as false (i.e., failed, inferior). Without looking, what should [REDACTED] be replaced by?

nemo44x 4y ago
Obviously “post-modern”.
- revolvingocelot 4y ago
  >>they classify certain beliefs as true (i.e., successful, superior) and other beliefs as false (i.e., failed, inferior) You think that this describes post-modernism? I thought post-modernism was all about, well, relativism. Upon looking it up, I'm amazed to discover that Kaczynski wrote "leftists", because the excerpted paragraph sure as hell describes the modern conservative. Raging against science and rationality and truth to serve an emotional drive to power? Trump, Bolsonaro, Putin... I think perhaps this is, uh, a difference in worldview.
  - nemo44x 4y ago
    I was going to say leftists of more federally liberals but settled on post modernism since it’s taken up by those groups. Post modernists say there is no truth and that everything comes down to power structures and control. That everything is made up anyways so feel free to throw away all grand narratives and indulge in whatever decadence you want. Because truth doesn’t exist and is a function of power structures. I think modern liberals are against science and rationality just as much as conservatives. They’re just think they aren’t. Liberals tend to be smart and conservatives tend to be wise.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
    - revolvingocelot 4y ago
      Exactly, just like when conservatives espouse "family values" and get busted for infidelity, or when they espouse anti-gay views and then solicit sex from police officers, or when they espouse free market values and then solicit money from the government to prop up some privatized service. That's the least throw-away-all-grand-narratives-and-indulge-in-whatever-decadence-you-want behaviour I've ever seen, yessir. Reminds me of foot-soldier culture warriors posting pictures of depression-era breadlines and suggesting that that's where sOcIaLiSm is taking us. Wisdom indeed. At least liberals seem occasionally active in trying to keep the status quo from degenerating, rather than profit from its acceleration.
      - nemo44x 4y ago
      - NateEag 4y ago
        I've known many people who lean conservative to one extent or another. I think many of them have demonstrated a good deal of wisdom, often by not trusting too much in the conclusions of their all-too-fallible intellects. I can't say that any of those conservatives I've admired have been politicians or megachurch pastors, which given your descriptions seems to be who you're looking at as "conservatives".
    - tsimionescu 4y ago
      I don't think post-modernism is actually popular in any significant population - it's only popular among some small segment of academia, one that has some influence on literature. But the vast majority of people, either on the left or right, and even of academics in general, find it pretentious and fallacious. The vast majority of people are decidedly not relativists and instead believe in certain absolutes - truth, right and wrong, etc.
      - nemo44x 4y ago
  - adrianN 4y ago
    You can't be in favor of relativism without thinking that relativism is true and it's opposite is false, or can you?
    - alexvoda 4y ago
      If you trully are in favour of relativism then you believe that relativism itself is relative. There are viewpoints from which something is absolute, other viewpoints from which the same thing is a discrete spectrum with a number of options, and other viewpoints from which it is a continuous spectrum. Most are tools for thought and they are merely the maps not the territory.
Barrin92 4y ago
I always find this kind of argument ironic because one, it's obviously intensely psychological itself, as are most philosophical attitudes (which does little to disqualify them) and secondly if you just were to take postmodern philosophy as a predictive science I don't think any discipline has been more prescient in describing our current condition.
- nemo44x 4y ago
  For certain things it’s really good. “Simulation and Simulacra” is a really good one and I think describes the world today well - and part of our frustration with it. Nothing is real anymore and nothing can be. It’s why McMansions exist. The simulate the ornate, large home of the mid/late 19th century. Bacon flavored toothpaste simulates the idea of bacon, etc. we are just drenched in irony. I think where post modernism goes wrong though is it’s conclusions. Nothing matters, nothing is real, decay is all that can happen. It’s just not true.
fragmede 4y ago
For those that follow that want to know the answer: leftish.

nemo44x 4y ago

Obviously “post-modern”.

revolvingocelot 4y ago
>>they classify certain beliefs as true (i.e., successful, superior) and other beliefs as false (i.e., failed, inferior) You think that this describes post-modernism? I thought post-modernism was all about, well, relativism. Upon looking it up, I'm amazed to discover that Kaczynski wrote "leftists", because the excerpted paragraph sure as hell describes the modern conservative. Raging against science and rationality and truth to serve an emotional drive to power? Trump, Bolsonaro, Putin... I think perhaps this is, uh, a difference in worldview.
- nemo44x 4y ago
  I was going to say leftists of more federally liberals but settled on post modernism since it’s taken up by those groups. Post modernists say there is no truth and that everything comes down to power structures and control. That everything is made up anyways so feel free to throw away all grand narratives and indulge in whatever decadence you want. Because truth doesn’t exist and is a function of power structures. I think modern liberals are against science and rationality just as much as conservatives. They’re just think they aren’t. Liberals tend to be smart and conservatives tend to be wise.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - revolvingocelot 4y ago
    Exactly, just like when conservatives espouse "family values" and get busted for infidelity, or when they espouse anti-gay views and then solicit sex from police officers, or when they espouse free market values and then solicit money from the government to prop up some privatized service. That's the least throw-away-all-grand-narratives-and-indulge-in-whatever-decadence-you-want behaviour I've ever seen, yessir. Reminds me of foot-soldier culture warriors posting pictures of depression-era breadlines and suggesting that that's where sOcIaLiSm is taking us. Wisdom indeed. At least liberals seem occasionally active in trying to keep the status quo from degenerating, rather than profit from its acceleration.
    - nemo44x 4y ago
    - NateEag 4y ago
      I've known many people who lean conservative to one extent or another. I think many of them have demonstrated a good deal of wisdom, often by not trusting too much in the conclusions of their all-too-fallible intellects. I can't say that any of those conservatives I've admired have been politicians or megachurch pastors, which given your descriptions seems to be who you're looking at as "conservatives".
  - tsimionescu 4y ago
    I don't think post-modernism is actually popular in any significant population - it's only popular among some small segment of academia, one that has some influence on literature. But the vast majority of people, either on the left or right, and even of academics in general, find it pretentious and fallacious. The vast majority of people are decidedly not relativists and instead believe in certain absolutes - truth, right and wrong, etc.
    - nemo44x 4y ago
- adrianN 4y ago
  You can't be in favor of relativism without thinking that relativism is true and it's opposite is false, or can you?
  - alexvoda 4y ago
    If you trully are in favour of relativism then you believe that relativism itself is relative. There are viewpoints from which something is absolute, other viewpoints from which the same thing is a discrete spectrum with a number of options, and other viewpoints from which it is a continuous spectrum. Most are tools for thought and they are merely the maps not the territory.

Barrin92 4y ago

I always find this kind of argument ironic because one, it's obviously intensely psychological itself, as are most philosophical attitudes (which does little to disqualify them) and secondly if you just were to take postmodern philosophy as a predictive science I don't think any discipline has been more prescient in describing our current condition.

nemo44x 4y ago
For certain things it’s really good. “Simulation and Simulacra” is a really good one and I think describes the world today well - and part of our frustration with it. Nothing is real anymore and nothing can be. It’s why McMansions exist. The simulate the ornate, large home of the mid/late 19th century. Bacon flavored toothpaste simulates the idea of bacon, etc. we are just drenched in irony. I think where post modernism goes wrong though is it’s conclusions. Nothing matters, nothing is real, decay is all that can happen. It’s just not true.

fragmede 4y ago

For those that follow that want to know the answer: leftish.