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That's the main reason I really like vinyl. Physics prevents the mastering engineers from going overly crazy. Vinyl often sounds more carefully mastered, even t

That's the main reason I really like vinyl. Physics prevents the mastering engineers from going overly crazy. Vinyl often sounds more carefully mastered, even though nothing would technically prevent you from releasing the same thing in digital form. The other thing I like is that it really takes more effort to put on a record than start a track on Spotify. I really only do it when I can take the time to do so. Pick a record from the shelf, carefully take it out of the sleeve, carefully put it down on the turntable, and then really listen to a full record while sitting or lying on the couch doing nothing else. Again nothing you couldn't do with Spotify or YouTube music, but somehow you (well, at least I) never do.

kstrauser 4y ago
I listened to "Disintegration" last week exactly like that, but with Apple Music. It was the first time I'd listened to an album start-to-finish in years, and I highly recommend it. I like not having to flip the record halfway through, or being able to listen to "The Wall" without 3 flips.
- wk_end 4y ago
  The structure that side/disc limitations impose is part of the listening experience, to me - I like having to take a moment to consider the sub-narrative of the side as a whole before moving on. Even when streaming I’ll often look up the vinyl track listings to get a sense of the artist’s intended schema.
  - kstrauser 4y ago
    I get it. I still like having the option to skip it if I'm being lazy.
  - hbn 4y ago
    > I like having to take a moment to consider the sub-narrative of the side as a whole before moving on. That's a great way of putting it! And something I hadn't considered before I bought a record player and started listening to it. There's that point in time where you realize the A-side is done, you get up to go and flip it, and you have a half-minute or so of reflection on the first half. Then the B-side starts and it's like the second act of a play is starting after intermission.
defterGoose 4y ago
It's still true that it takes a skillful ear/hand to do that mastering. I've heard terribly mastered older (not abused) records and modern releases that are excellent. A good original copy of Rumours is about as good as it gets IME. Vinyl _does_ also provide a nice soft upper limit to the loudness wars.
- FullyFunctional 4y ago
  Couldn't we characterize vinyl limitations and capture that as a digital filter? And if so would you be able to tell the difference between the vinyl and filtered digital?
  - toast0 4y ago
    The premise in this part of the thread is that the mastering engineers will not make a record that exceeds the limits of the medium, and what fits on the medium sounds nice. Assuming this is correct, and that the digital mix intended for cds or streaming/downloads outside vinyl's range, you might be able to filter the digital mix to fit in vinyl's range and that might approximate the vinyl mix, but maybe the mastering engineer would make different choices (of course, maybe they just use a filter). It'd be interesting to explore with actual data.
  - iforgotpassword 4y ago
    It wouldn't work with albums where the mastering is different, especially if the digital release is compressed more. You cannot undo squashed dynamic range really. A famous example from a while ago is the album stadium arcadium by the red hot chili peppers. Comparing the two versions of a song should sound notably different even to a casual listener. And you can really see the difference just looking at the wave forms.
conradfr 4y ago
That's why I like to download vinyl rips. But some vinyls actually come from a digital master anyway.
- aeyes 4y ago
  Even if the master wasn't digital, how many vinyl mastering engineers used a digital reverse RIAA? I have a ton of vinyl records myself, never understood why anyone would say they sound better. Vinyl is a compressed format, even if the compression is analog. There is significant loss of signal in the whole signal chain. You need to do reverse RIAA (compression), then you fabricate a master, then you press vinyl from this master which is only good for a few thousand presses, then you have the pickup and at last the RIAA preamp (decompression)...
  - kevin_thibedeau 4y ago
    Don't forget that playback progressively damages the medium. A true audiophool keeps a stockpile of virgin vinyl so they can playback once and throw it away.

kstrauser 4y ago

I listened to "Disintegration" last week exactly like that, but with Apple Music. It was the first time I'd listened to an album start-to-finish in years, and I highly recommend it. I like not having to flip the record halfway through, or being able to listen to "The Wall" without 3 flips.

wk_end 4y ago
The structure that side/disc limitations impose is part of the listening experience, to me - I like having to take a moment to consider the sub-narrative of the side as a whole before moving on. Even when streaming I’ll often look up the vinyl track listings to get a sense of the artist’s intended schema.
- kstrauser 4y ago
  I get it. I still like having the option to skip it if I'm being lazy.
- hbn 4y ago
  > I like having to take a moment to consider the sub-narrative of the side as a whole before moving on. That's a great way of putting it! And something I hadn't considered before I bought a record player and started listening to it. There's that point in time where you realize the A-side is done, you get up to go and flip it, and you have a half-minute or so of reflection on the first half. Then the B-side starts and it's like the second act of a play is starting after intermission.

defterGoose 4y ago

It's still true that it takes a skillful ear/hand to do that mastering. I've heard terribly mastered older (not abused) records and modern releases that are excellent. A good original copy of Rumours is about as good as it gets IME. Vinyl _does_ also provide a nice soft upper limit to the loudness wars.

FullyFunctional 4y ago
Couldn't we characterize vinyl limitations and capture that as a digital filter? And if so would you be able to tell the difference between the vinyl and filtered digital?
- toast0 4y ago
  The premise in this part of the thread is that the mastering engineers will not make a record that exceeds the limits of the medium, and what fits on the medium sounds nice. Assuming this is correct, and that the digital mix intended for cds or streaming/downloads outside vinyl's range, you might be able to filter the digital mix to fit in vinyl's range and that might approximate the vinyl mix, but maybe the mastering engineer would make different choices (of course, maybe they just use a filter). It'd be interesting to explore with actual data.
- iforgotpassword 4y ago
  It wouldn't work with albums where the mastering is different, especially if the digital release is compressed more. You cannot undo squashed dynamic range really. A famous example from a while ago is the album stadium arcadium by the red hot chili peppers. Comparing the two versions of a song should sound notably different even to a casual listener. And you can really see the difference just looking at the wave forms.

conradfr 4y ago

That's why I like to download vinyl rips. But some vinyls actually come from a digital master anyway.

aeyes 4y ago
Even if the master wasn't digital, how many vinyl mastering engineers used a digital reverse RIAA? I have a ton of vinyl records myself, never understood why anyone would say they sound better. Vinyl is a compressed format, even if the compression is analog. There is significant loss of signal in the whole signal chain. You need to do reverse RIAA (compression), then you fabricate a master, then you press vinyl from this master which is only good for a few thousand presses, then you have the pickup and at last the RIAA preamp (decompression)...
- kevin_thibedeau 4y ago
  Don't forget that playback progressively damages the medium. A true audiophool keeps a stockpile of virgin vinyl so they can playback once and throw it away.