4 ms·

I agree in principle, however in practice someone is considered (read: hired as) senior as long as they’re over X years of experience (in addition to a host of

I agree in principle, however in practice someone is considered (read: hired as) senior as long as they’re over X years of experience (in addition to a host of other variables). It would be nice if ability to co-operate was a hard requirement though.

gregjor 4y ago
I know how it works. I have worked as a programmer for over 40 years, so I'm "senior" in terms of years of experience. But in some contexts I wouldn't think of myself as senior. It depends on the project and the team and the tools. I got involved with a financial application a couple of years ago, the senior developer has fewer years programming than I do but he knows a hell of a lot more about the application domain and trading algorithms, so in that context he's senior to me. I've worked with programmers almost 1/3 my own age who are senior to me in some aspects. Humility and knowing that you don't know everything are part of calling yourself "senior" in my opinion. Ability to cooperate should be a hard requirement. History and actual studies have repeatedly demonstrated that individual personalities and team dynamics (mainly around communication and cooperation) are first-order drivers of project success. Any programmer with a few years experience knows that one person on the team can derail the project with conflict, and that is far more damaging than choosing the "wrong" language or framework or tabs vs. spaces. A programmer who can't communicate (both with the team and with management and customers), cooperate, compromise, mentor junior programmers, listen to ideas, and put a plan for success together that leverages individual talents is not "senior" except maybe in years.
- ironmagma 4y ago
  Trying to put a theoretical definition on senior is an interesting epistemological exercise but ultimately pointless. Real life does not care about definitions, especially single-bullet-points of those definitions. Everyone who works as a senior engineer has some strengths and weaknesses, so inevitably you will get some seniors with the weakness that they don’t get along well with other seniors.
  - gregjor 4y ago
    Agreed. That's why I call myself "programmer" rather than senior or engineer or whatever. Titles don't really matter in this industry except for matching a slot on a pay scale. It's been a long time since I've cared what title I get, I get paid the same regardless. Easier not to care about titles as a freelancer I suppose. People who can't get along in the workplace, or in the rest of life, not only hinder themselves. They can damage a team's productivity and cohesion, and sink a project. Over time I have come to value "people skills" over technical chops, though it's nice to get both, and when I work with someone with good people, communication, and technical skills I think of them as "senior" regardless of their actual age or years of experience.
    - ironmagma 4y ago
      You sound enjoyable to work with, I wish I could say the same about some of my coworkers.

gregjor 4y ago

I know how it works. I have worked as a programmer for over 40 years, so I'm "senior" in terms of years of experience. But in some contexts I wouldn't think of myself as senior. It depends on the project and the team and the tools. I got involved with a financial application a couple of years ago, the senior developer has fewer years programming than I do but he knows a hell of a lot more about the application domain and trading algorithms, so in that context he's senior to me. I've worked with programmers almost 1/3 my own age who are senior to me in some aspects. Humility and knowing that you don't know everything are part of calling yourself "senior" in my opinion. Ability to cooperate should be a hard requirement. History and actual studies have repeatedly demonstrated that individual personalities and team dynamics (mainly around communication and cooperation) are first-order drivers of project success. Any programmer with a few years experience knows that one person on the team can derail the project with conflict, and that is far more damaging than choosing the "wrong" language or framework or tabs vs. spaces. A programmer who can't communicate (both with the team and with management and customers), cooperate, compromise, mentor junior programmers, listen to ideas, and put a plan for success together that leverages individual talents is not "senior" except maybe in years.

ironmagma 4y ago
Trying to put a theoretical definition on senior is an interesting epistemological exercise but ultimately pointless. Real life does not care about definitions, especially single-bullet-points of those definitions. Everyone who works as a senior engineer has some strengths and weaknesses, so inevitably you will get some seniors with the weakness that they don’t get along well with other seniors.
- gregjor 4y ago
  Agreed. That's why I call myself "programmer" rather than senior or engineer or whatever. Titles don't really matter in this industry except for matching a slot on a pay scale. It's been a long time since I've cared what title I get, I get paid the same regardless. Easier not to care about titles as a freelancer I suppose. People who can't get along in the workplace, or in the rest of life, not only hinder themselves. They can damage a team's productivity and cohesion, and sink a project. Over time I have come to value "people skills" over technical chops, though it's nice to get both, and when I work with someone with good people, communication, and technical skills I think of them as "senior" regardless of their actual age or years of experience.
  - ironmagma 4y ago
    You sound enjoyable to work with, I wish I could say the same about some of my coworkers.