4 ms·

Can anyone explain how rare burgers can possibly be safe? I've always understood that bacteria that causes food poisoning lives on the surface of a steak hence

Can anyone explain how rare burgers can possibly be safe? I've always understood that bacteria that causes food poisoning lives on the surface of a steak hence rare steak is no problem. Mincing a steak would cause that bacteria to be through out the burger. I was surprised when I was in the USA and I was asked how I want my burger done. I love a rare steak but would never consider a rare burger. Maybe I'm wrong about the bacteria thing?

snoopy_telex 4y ago
Do you eat tartare? It's not totally safe, but it's often low risk enough that people go for it. I generally get med-rare burgers from places that ground their own meats recently, so streak houses that ground the steak trimmings from yesterday that morning. Else I'll order medium and not risk it, but everyone's risk profile is different.
elbigbad 4y ago
You’re not wrong, but its the difference between restaurant rare and home rare. Restaurant rare typically comes from a giant pile of meat, many pounds mixed into a large recipe and then divvied out into patties to be cooked to order. This gives a significantly higher chance of getting bad bacteria, though still not particularly high chances from any given batch. Cooking at home one is typically using a significantly smaller amount of ground beef from a smaller batch, so lower chances overall of some bacteria from one package of beef being distributed across a large number of burgers. Additionally most bacteria that gets onto food prepared in reasonably clean environments doesn’t do much more than cause an upset stomach. There’s liability at restaurants on the above for the reasons you mentioned, where those same liabilities don’t exist for steaks as highly. At home, all bets are off on liability from being undercooked. Still though I wouldn’t eat rare burgers at home.
- googlryas 4y ago
  Isn't that only true if you ground your own beef? I assume supermarket ground beef is ground in batches of hundreds of lbs
  - SoftTalker 4y ago
    It is, but they are probably more careful about cleaning the equipment than the typical restaurant. When I'm at my supermarket meat counter near closing time, they are washing everything -- equipment, countertops, walls, floors with hot soapy water, brushes, and a hose. Everything goes down the floor drain. When I worked in restaurants, equipment was mostly cleaned with rags and a bucket.
    - marak830 4y ago
      More food poisoning occurs at home, than at restaurants. I don't know what 'restaurant' you were at that used rags and buckets, but it certainly would have failed health and safety regulations. Source, 15 years as a chef.
Kaibeezy 4y ago
How about if you sear a large cut of beef to kill the surface bacteria, then immediately slice off (with a sterilized knife) and grind (with a sterilized grinder) enough for tartare or a rare burger? I'd eat that! Do any restaurants do that?
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
advisedwang 4y ago
IT's not 100% safe. Neither are oysters [1] or soft-boiled eggs [2]. But if you have it once in a while and no other health factors it might well be worth the risk. [1] https://www.cdc.gov/vibrio/vibrio-oysters.html https://www.cdc.gov/vibrio/vibrio-oysters.html [2] https://www.cdc.gov/foodsafety/communication/salmonella-and-eggs.html https://www.cdc.gov/foodsafety/communication/salmonella-and-...
adrianmonk 4y ago
I don't know if restaurants use it, but irradiated ground beef is a thing[1]. It has been offered by Wegman's supermarkets[2] and Omaha Steaks[3]. Omaha Steaks says they use it (only) for ground beef because, "Unlike solid cuts of meat, the potential exists that surface bacteria may have been mixed within ground beef." Wegmans has a cooking temperature page[4] that gives lower temperatures for irradiated ground beef than for regular ground beef. So that's one way safe + rare is possible. Another way is sous vide. It's a "low and slow" cooking technique, and germ-killing is a function of both time and temperature[5], so it can achieve safe + rare. It's definitely more trouble to cook your burgers for 1-2 hours, though. --- [1] https://ccr.ucdavis.edu/food-irradiation/are-irradiated-foods-us-supermarkets-now https://ccr.ucdavis.edu/food-irradiation/are-irradiated-food... [2] https://www.supermarketnews.com/archive/wegmans-offers-own-irradiated-fresh-beef https://www.supermarketnews.com/archive/wegmans-offers-own-i... [3] https://www.omahasteaks.com/servlet/OnlineShopping?Dsp=5707 https://www.omahasteaks.com/servlet/OnlineShopping?Dsp=5707 [4] https://www.wegmans.com/final-cook-to-temperature-charts/ https://www.wegmans.com/final-cook-to-temperature-charts/ [5] https://douglasbaldwin.com/sous-vide.html#Safety https://douglasbaldwin.com/sous-vide.html#Safety

snoopy_telex 4y ago

Do you eat tartare? It's not totally safe, but it's often low risk enough that people go for it. I generally get med-rare burgers from places that ground their own meats recently, so streak houses that ground the steak trimmings from yesterday that morning. Else I'll order medium and not risk it, but everyone's risk profile is different.

elbigbad 4y ago

You’re not wrong, but its the difference between restaurant rare and home rare. Restaurant rare typically comes from a giant pile of meat, many pounds mixed into a large recipe and then divvied out into patties to be cooked to order. This gives a significantly higher chance of getting bad bacteria, though still not particularly high chances from any given batch. Cooking at home one is typically using a significantly smaller amount of ground beef from a smaller batch, so lower chances overall of some bacteria from one package of beef being distributed across a large number of burgers. Additionally most bacteria that gets onto food prepared in reasonably clean environments doesn’t do much more than cause an upset stomach. There’s liability at restaurants on the above for the reasons you mentioned, where those same liabilities don’t exist for steaks as highly. At home, all bets are off on liability from being undercooked. Still though I wouldn’t eat rare burgers at home.

googlryas 4y ago
Isn't that only true if you ground your own beef? I assume supermarket ground beef is ground in batches of hundreds of lbs
- SoftTalker 4y ago
  It is, but they are probably more careful about cleaning the equipment than the typical restaurant. When I'm at my supermarket meat counter near closing time, they are washing everything -- equipment, countertops, walls, floors with hot soapy water, brushes, and a hose. Everything goes down the floor drain. When I worked in restaurants, equipment was mostly cleaned with rags and a bucket.
  - marak830 4y ago
    More food poisoning occurs at home, than at restaurants. I don't know what 'restaurant' you were at that used rags and buckets, but it certainly would have failed health and safety regulations. Source, 15 years as a chef.

Kaibeezy 4y ago

How about if you sear a large cut of beef to kill the surface bacteria, then immediately slice off (with a sterilized knife) and grind (with a sterilized grinder) enough for tartare or a rare burger? I'd eat that! Do any restaurants do that?

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]

advisedwang 4y ago

IT's not 100% safe. Neither are oysters [1] or soft-boiled eggs [2]. But if you have it once in a while and no other health factors it might well be worth the risk. [1] https://www.cdc.gov/vibrio/vibrio-oysters.html https://www.cdc.gov/vibrio/vibrio-oysters.html [2] https://www.cdc.gov/foodsafety/communication/salmonella-and-eggs.html https://www.cdc.gov/foodsafety/communication/salmonella-and-...

adrianmonk 4y ago

I don't know if restaurants use it, but irradiated ground beef is a thing[1]. It has been offered by Wegman's supermarkets[2] and Omaha Steaks[3]. Omaha Steaks says they use it (only) for ground beef because, "Unlike solid cuts of meat, the potential exists that surface bacteria may have been mixed within ground beef." Wegmans has a cooking temperature page[4] that gives lower temperatures for irradiated ground beef than for regular ground beef. So that's one way safe + rare is possible. Another way is sous vide. It's a "low and slow" cooking technique, and germ-killing is a function of both time and temperature[5], so it can achieve safe + rare. It's definitely more trouble to cook your burgers for 1-2 hours, though. --- [1] https://ccr.ucdavis.edu/food-irradiation/are-irradiated-foods-us-supermarkets-now https://ccr.ucdavis.edu/food-irradiation/are-irradiated-food... [2] https://www.supermarketnews.com/archive/wegmans-offers-own-irradiated-fresh-beef https://www.supermarketnews.com/archive/wegmans-offers-own-i... [3] https://www.omahasteaks.com/servlet/OnlineShopping?Dsp=5707 https://www.omahasteaks.com/servlet/OnlineShopping?Dsp=5707 [4] https://www.wegmans.com/final-cook-to-temperature-charts/ https://www.wegmans.com/final-cook-to-temperature-charts/ [5] https://douglasbaldwin.com/sous-vide.html#Safety https://douglasbaldwin.com/sous-vide.html#Safety