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Basically the Fed (a privately owned institution) print money out of literal 'thin air', then lend it at interest to the US Government and banks etc. Which in p

Basically the Fed (a privately owned institution) print money out of literal 'thin air', then lend it at interest to the US Government and banks etc. Which in practice means there's literally never enough money in circulation to pay off the 'debt'. The IMF is an extension of that, they lend money to countries, then siphon off that countries assets in return. Look up the Federal Reserve Act 1913 also. "It is well enough that people of the nation do not understand our banking and monetary system, for if they did, I believe there would be a revolution before tomorrow morning." - Henry Ford

dragonwriter 4y ago
> Basically the Fed (a privately owned institution) The Fed overall has a weird hybrid public/private hybrid structure, but the monetary policy decision-making part, the Federal Reserve Board of Governors, is a bog-standard “indepedent within the executive branch” federal agency just like the FCC, FTC, etc.
- dmfdmf 4y ago
  The best description I have read is that the Fed is a govt sanctioned monopoly on check kiting. As you say, it is a hybrid and they split the "profits".
zugi 4y ago
> Which in practice means there's literally never enough money in circulation to pay off the 'debt'. I always wondered why so many people were in so much debt, and was really shocked when I came to the understanding that we've designed our monetary system to trap people in debt. https://youtube.com/watch?v=2nBPN-MKefA https://youtube.com/watch?v=2nBPN-MKefA is a cartoonish but thorough explanation for anyone who has the time. This system really is insane. I mean, I thought Bitcoin was dumb because it's based on nothing, but our national government-based monetary systems being based on debt are even worse.
- nine_zeros 4y ago
  I struggled for years as a non-economics person to understand how money is produced and if there is a fixed supply of money, how can interest ever be paid. Going down that rabbit hole is so insightful. We are all stuck in a debt based system. The only way to pay off debts is to print more money and create even more debt. That's all there is. There is no way to eliminate all the debt+interest. None.
  - Delk 4y ago
    By the time you get into any depth in that rabbit hole, the question really starts being about what money actually is. In the end, money is just some kind of an abstract quantity that we collectively believe and agree can be used for obtaining something directly useful or desirable later. Its value is based on that mutual understanding and belief. As long as the economy isn't a zero-sum game, thinking of money that way makes debt (and interest) actually kind of make sense without having to turn it solely into a vicious circle of more debt to pay off the interest. If the real economy keeps growing and those abstract resources borrowed from someone else (debt) can be used for investment that allows for creating added real value (or decreasing real costs), that added value can be used for offsetting the interest. The entire arrangement may still require "printing" more money and creating more debt but that's not necessarily the only thing that's happening. The real value that can be obtained with that increased amount of money in circulation also increases as long as the real economy also grows. It kind of does seem to make it a requirement that the real economy actually keeps growing, though. Or, at least that's how it looks to me as a layman.
    - neilwilson 4y ago
      Money is just a promise. It is a formalisation of "Bill, here's a pig, owe me one". Then Fred does some work for you and you say to Bill "don't owe me, owe Fred". Humans know who they owe and who owes them. We write it down when society gets too big to hold all the people we might owe in our collective heads.
  - neilwilson 4y ago
rmbyrro 4y ago
Thanks for pointing out the 1913 Act ;)

dragonwriter 4y ago

> Basically the Fed (a privately owned institution) The Fed overall has a weird hybrid public/private hybrid structure, but the monetary policy decision-making part, the Federal Reserve Board of Governors, is a bog-standard “indepedent within the executive branch” federal agency just like the FCC, FTC, etc.

dmfdmf 4y ago
The best description I have read is that the Fed is a govt sanctioned monopoly on check kiting. As you say, it is a hybrid and they split the "profits".

zugi 4y ago

> Which in practice means there's literally never enough money in circulation to pay off the 'debt'. I always wondered why so many people were in so much debt, and was really shocked when I came to the understanding that we've designed our monetary system to trap people in debt. https://youtube.com/watch?v=2nBPN-MKefA https://youtube.com/watch?v=2nBPN-MKefA is a cartoonish but thorough explanation for anyone who has the time. This system really is insane. I mean, I thought Bitcoin was dumb because it's based on nothing, but our national government-based monetary systems being based on debt are even worse.

nine_zeros 4y ago
I struggled for years as a non-economics person to understand how money is produced and if there is a fixed supply of money, how can interest ever be paid. Going down that rabbit hole is so insightful. We are all stuck in a debt based system. The only way to pay off debts is to print more money and create even more debt. That's all there is. There is no way to eliminate all the debt+interest. None.
- Delk 4y ago
  By the time you get into any depth in that rabbit hole, the question really starts being about what money actually is. In the end, money is just some kind of an abstract quantity that we collectively believe and agree can be used for obtaining something directly useful or desirable later. Its value is based on that mutual understanding and belief. As long as the economy isn't a zero-sum game, thinking of money that way makes debt (and interest) actually kind of make sense without having to turn it solely into a vicious circle of more debt to pay off the interest. If the real economy keeps growing and those abstract resources borrowed from someone else (debt) can be used for investment that allows for creating added real value (or decreasing real costs), that added value can be used for offsetting the interest. The entire arrangement may still require "printing" more money and creating more debt but that's not necessarily the only thing that's happening. The real value that can be obtained with that increased amount of money in circulation also increases as long as the real economy also grows. It kind of does seem to make it a requirement that the real economy actually keeps growing, though. Or, at least that's how it looks to me as a layman.
  - neilwilson 4y ago
    Money is just a promise. It is a formalisation of "Bill, here's a pig, owe me one". Then Fred does some work for you and you say to Bill "don't owe me, owe Fred". Humans know who they owe and who owes them. We write it down when society gets too big to hold all the people we might owe in our collective heads.
- neilwilson 4y ago

rmbyrro 4y ago

Thanks for pointing out the 1913 Act ;)