4 ms·

Uber's still not profitable

59 points by kranke155 4y ago

gmoore 4y ago
it's bewildering how a company can lose money for 13 years.....
- Zealotux 4y ago
  Ask Amazon https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2000/05/12/strategy-letter-i-ben-and-jerrys-vs-amazon/ https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2000/05/12/strategy-letter-i-...
  - Ekaros 4y ago
    I don't think Amazon is losing money, but investing it. Which is entirely different situation than Uber. At this point Uber should have ready product and it should have already entered most markets it can. So where are they wasting money?
    - Apocryphon 4y ago
      Yeah, Amazon having AWS in their pocket to pivot to as their major moneymaker seems like a one-in-a-lifetime FAANG-creating gold mine. Uber doesn't have anything like that. Maybe self-driving cars could have been but that's much harder than predicted and it's not even an option for them anymore.
  - pwinnski 4y ago
    Amazon was making profit in one area of the business and investing it in another. Uber is not making money in any area of the business that is sustainable for more than a single quarter. Not the same thing at all.
rafaelero 4y ago
Uber is one of the few companies that will significantly burden my life if it goes out of business. I can't imagine having to deal with taxis again.
- AlexandrB 4y ago
  Taxis have gotten better (at least in my neck of the woods), and have comparable apps to Uber now. As for Uber's other advantages - those seem to be going away now that money for ride subsidies is running out.
CSMastermind 4y ago
This author is clearly hostile towards Uber. That doesn't mean that their analysis is wrong, but you should read this with their bias in mind. Personally, I find it disingenuous to say that Uber offers a worse version of traditional taxi services. The mobile application, ease of payment, and review ability were all genuinely large improvements over traditional taxi services. I'm less certain about the two-way marketplace model being an innovation but I think a reasonable person could come to that conclusion. None of that means that Uber will be a financially stable company going forward nor does it mean that they're a good investment. But it's a little unfair to pretend they've never offered anything of value.
- m-ee 4y ago
  A major part of their value proposition was that they couldn’t decline your ride because they didn’t feel like driving to your destination which is now gone. However that has been a lie for years now, and the updated version might actually be an improvement. Trying to go to Oakland from SF frequently led to drivers showing up and having to argue with them. “I’m not going to Oakland, cancel the ride” “no you cancel the ride” Or more aggravating, they figured out they could stop nearby the pickup point but out of sight to see the destination then claim that you didn’t show. This meant arguing with Uber support to get the cancellation fee dropped.
  - cudgy 4y ago
    Drivers don’t know the destination before they accept the fare?
    - kranke155 4y ago
      They didn’t use to, no.
- orangecat 4y ago
  This author is clearly hostile towards Uber. Very much so, and it clouds his analysis. Especially this: Anyone who's taken an Uber since the lockdowns lifted knows that the company's prices have skyrocketed. What you may not know (unless you drive for Uber) is that the company has also slashed driver pay over that same period – over the past year, Uber's share of each fare climbed from 18% to 28%, a 66% increase in the shareholders' claim over the fruits of Uber drivers' labor. If Uber's share goes from 18% to 28% then the driver share goes from 82% to 72%. This is a 12% decrease that is almost certainly more than made up for by the increased fares. The 66% figure is irrelevant in the context of driver take-home pay; he's just throwing it out there because it looks big and scary.
spywaregorilla 4y ago
Glossing over their Q2 statements: * Their current liabilities are a bit over their current assets and have been since the start of the year * Their equity fell by more than half. Debt:Equity is now 3x As always, the answer is that they can continue to burn cash for a while yet.
smaryjerry 4y ago
The article makes a lot of claims but uses almost no evidence. Half of it is complaining about adjusted numbers.. but does the author know that all public companies have to report GAAP as well, not only the adjusted numbers? Then there’s the claim of costs skyrocketing and drivers considering other options, but the used and new car market is absolutely crazy right now as well as gas prices. It feels like there could be substance but it is only surface level in this article.
badinsie 4y ago
Uber is the literal definition of a parasite. pretty pathetic.

59 points by kranke155 4y ago

gmoore 4y ago

it's bewildering how a company can lose money for 13 years.....

Zealotux 4y ago
Ask Amazon https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2000/05/12/strategy-letter-i-ben-and-jerrys-vs-amazon/ https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2000/05/12/strategy-letter-i-...
- Ekaros 4y ago
  I don't think Amazon is losing money, but investing it. Which is entirely different situation than Uber. At this point Uber should have ready product and it should have already entered most markets it can. So where are they wasting money?
  - Apocryphon 4y ago
    Yeah, Amazon having AWS in their pocket to pivot to as their major moneymaker seems like a one-in-a-lifetime FAANG-creating gold mine. Uber doesn't have anything like that. Maybe self-driving cars could have been but that's much harder than predicted and it's not even an option for them anymore.
- pwinnski 4y ago
  Amazon was making profit in one area of the business and investing it in another. Uber is not making money in any area of the business that is sustainable for more than a single quarter. Not the same thing at all.

rafaelero 4y ago

Uber is one of the few companies that will significantly burden my life if it goes out of business. I can't imagine having to deal with taxis again.

AlexandrB 4y ago
Taxis have gotten better (at least in my neck of the woods), and have comparable apps to Uber now. As for Uber's other advantages - those seem to be going away now that money for ride subsidies is running out.

CSMastermind 4y ago

This author is clearly hostile towards Uber. That doesn't mean that their analysis is wrong, but you should read this with their bias in mind. Personally, I find it disingenuous to say that Uber offers a worse version of traditional taxi services. The mobile application, ease of payment, and review ability were all genuinely large improvements over traditional taxi services. I'm less certain about the two-way marketplace model being an innovation but I think a reasonable person could come to that conclusion. None of that means that Uber will be a financially stable company going forward nor does it mean that they're a good investment. But it's a little unfair to pretend they've never offered anything of value.

m-ee 4y ago
A major part of their value proposition was that they couldn’t decline your ride because they didn’t feel like driving to your destination which is now gone. However that has been a lie for years now, and the updated version might actually be an improvement. Trying to go to Oakland from SF frequently led to drivers showing up and having to argue with them. “I’m not going to Oakland, cancel the ride” “no you cancel the ride” Or more aggravating, they figured out they could stop nearby the pickup point but out of sight to see the destination then claim that you didn’t show. This meant arguing with Uber support to get the cancellation fee dropped.
- cudgy 4y ago
  Drivers don’t know the destination before they accept the fare?
  - kranke155 4y ago
    They didn’t use to, no.
orangecat 4y ago
This author is clearly hostile towards Uber. Very much so, and it clouds his analysis. Especially this: Anyone who's taken an Uber since the lockdowns lifted knows that the company's prices have skyrocketed. What you may not know (unless you drive for Uber) is that the company has also slashed driver pay over that same period – over the past year, Uber's share of each fare climbed from 18% to 28%, a 66% increase in the shareholders' claim over the fruits of Uber drivers' labor. If Uber's share goes from 18% to 28% then the driver share goes from 82% to 72%. This is a 12% decrease that is almost certainly more than made up for by the increased fares. The 66% figure is irrelevant in the context of driver take-home pay; he's just throwing it out there because it looks big and scary.

spywaregorilla 4y ago

Glossing over their Q2 statements: * Their current liabilities are a bit over their current assets and have been since the start of the year * Their equity fell by more than half. Debt:Equity is now 3x As always, the answer is that they can continue to burn cash for a while yet.

smaryjerry 4y ago

The article makes a lot of claims but uses almost no evidence. Half of it is complaining about adjusted numbers.. but does the author know that all public companies have to report GAAP as well, not only the adjusted numbers? Then there’s the claim of costs skyrocketing and drivers considering other options, but the used and new car market is absolutely crazy right now as well as gas prices. It feels like there could be substance but it is only surface level in this article.

badinsie 4y ago

Uber is the literal definition of a parasite. pretty pathetic.