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Most places I've worked at (Windows shops largely) had management tools that worked well on Windows but not as well on other devices. The IT staff was skilled l

Most places I've worked at (Windows shops largely) had management tools that worked well on Windows but not as well on other devices. The IT staff was skilled largely in Windows, as well. The biggest argument against other OS options was that we simply did not have the tools and experience to effectively manage the other options. It's a valid argument, and seemed disingenuous to take digs at the other OS options when the reality was that we simply couldn't support a Mac well in an enterprise environment.

Xylakant 4y ago
I entirely agree - supporting multiple operating systems is effort at every level and from a certain size on, you need people with dedicated knowledge of each OS. But if that’s the problem, make that point instead of finding excuses.
pid-1 4y ago
It wasn't a limitation of the places you've worked at - endpoint management tools for Windows are light years ahead of the ones for Apple. Moreover said tools simply don't exist in Linux land.
- number6 4y ago
  Linux has the best endpoint management tools: Ansible, Chef, Puppet, Terraform? Server management you say? How is a server different from a Laptop? It has Wayland installed or X11? Apple and windows aren't even in the same ballpark.
jeffwask 4y ago
Microsoft Windows with AzureAd and Intune provides a suite of tools for managing your fleet of laptops at little to no additional cost. It's honestly so much for free that running any other suite of laptops becomes arduous and expensive. It all just works out of the box and it's easy to bolt things on. The viruses and malware argument is ludicrous if you do any amount of end point protection. Apple is a walled garden. Everything is a degree of difficulty or two harder and you often run into weird ecosystem shit like some aspects of laptop mdm registration only working if the user has an iPhone. The tooling is 5-10 years behind, non-existent, or expensive because the third parties know they got you by the short and curlies. Linux is a build your own from open source ecosystem and what understaffed overworked IT team has time for that. I mean Google manages their Linux laptop fleet by rolling their own distro. Never mind all the compatibility issues with other required tooling that may or may not work. Some of these issue may have been easier to conquer in OnSite roles where laptops could be dropped at an IT cage but for full remote the Windows ecosystem has just gained more ground because of the iceberg of features most users never see.
- jupp0r 4y ago
  You are missing an important point: engineers want to use the tools that work best for them. They don’t care much about the things they can’t see. Taking a job with a super restrictive IT environment that would prevent me from doing my job effectively would be a deterrent to work for that company. I know many people who feel similar to this. The opportunity cost of not being able to hire those people or giving them other incentives to alleviate those concerns is easily orders of magnitude more expensive than just buying a device management as a service solution for other OSes. I’ve rarely seen people being very enthusiastic Windows users btw.
  - BlargMcLarg 4y ago
    I've rarely seen individuals be very happy with Linux / Unix outside a few very dedicated, stereotypical hacker-types. Safe to say anecdotes don't work. I'd also think twice about the consequences of these decisions. If Gitlab and co decide Linux/Mac is the answer for market share, it's only a matter of time before hackers start targeting those platforms en masse. If the answer to Windows was restriction galore, I fail to see how humans won't repeat history and do the same to Unix.
    - nikau 4y ago
      Seems like its a pretty good filter to me, anyone not adaptable to a different operating system is probably not a great fit for a company like gitlab.
  - jeffwask 4y ago
    Tell me you haven't used Windows in a decade without telling me you haven't used Windows in a decade
    - jupp0r 4y ago
      Until 4 months ago, I was leading a team responsible for a cross platform desktop app with 20 million daily users, most of them on Windows. I used Windows daily and found/reported numerous bugs to Microsoft. I would never have made it my primary development environment, but I had some people on my team who liked it for that. I think your uninformed ad hominem attacks are really impolite by the way.
nikau 4y ago
That was the only real benefit of having a mac in my experience - they were always a niche and off the radar and didn't have the 20 different security tools on them crippling performance like the Windows SOE. Thankfully WSL2 on Windows is now an option, its also off the radar so whatever happens inside the Linux VM doesn't cop a performance hit.

Xylakant 4y ago

I entirely agree - supporting multiple operating systems is effort at every level and from a certain size on, you need people with dedicated knowledge of each OS. But if that’s the problem, make that point instead of finding excuses.

pid-1 4y ago

It wasn't a limitation of the places you've worked at - endpoint management tools for Windows are light years ahead of the ones for Apple. Moreover said tools simply don't exist in Linux land.

number6 4y ago
Linux has the best endpoint management tools: Ansible, Chef, Puppet, Terraform? Server management you say? How is a server different from a Laptop? It has Wayland installed or X11? Apple and windows aren't even in the same ballpark.

jeffwask 4y ago

Microsoft Windows with AzureAd and Intune provides a suite of tools for managing your fleet of laptops at little to no additional cost. It's honestly so much for free that running any other suite of laptops becomes arduous and expensive. It all just works out of the box and it's easy to bolt things on. The viruses and malware argument is ludicrous if you do any amount of end point protection. Apple is a walled garden. Everything is a degree of difficulty or two harder and you often run into weird ecosystem shit like some aspects of laptop mdm registration only working if the user has an iPhone. The tooling is 5-10 years behind, non-existent, or expensive because the third parties know they got you by the short and curlies. Linux is a build your own from open source ecosystem and what understaffed overworked IT team has time for that. I mean Google manages their Linux laptop fleet by rolling their own distro. Never mind all the compatibility issues with other required tooling that may or may not work. Some of these issue may have been easier to conquer in OnSite roles where laptops could be dropped at an IT cage but for full remote the Windows ecosystem has just gained more ground because of the iceberg of features most users never see.

jupp0r 4y ago
You are missing an important point: engineers want to use the tools that work best for them. They don’t care much about the things they can’t see. Taking a job with a super restrictive IT environment that would prevent me from doing my job effectively would be a deterrent to work for that company. I know many people who feel similar to this. The opportunity cost of not being able to hire those people or giving them other incentives to alleviate those concerns is easily orders of magnitude more expensive than just buying a device management as a service solution for other OSes. I’ve rarely seen people being very enthusiastic Windows users btw.
- BlargMcLarg 4y ago
  I've rarely seen individuals be very happy with Linux / Unix outside a few very dedicated, stereotypical hacker-types. Safe to say anecdotes don't work. I'd also think twice about the consequences of these decisions. If Gitlab and co decide Linux/Mac is the answer for market share, it's only a matter of time before hackers start targeting those platforms en masse. If the answer to Windows was restriction galore, I fail to see how humans won't repeat history and do the same to Unix.
  - nikau 4y ago
    Seems like its a pretty good filter to me, anyone not adaptable to a different operating system is probably not a great fit for a company like gitlab.
- jeffwask 4y ago
  Tell me you haven't used Windows in a decade without telling me you haven't used Windows in a decade
  - jupp0r 4y ago
    Until 4 months ago, I was leading a team responsible for a cross platform desktop app with 20 million daily users, most of them on Windows. I used Windows daily and found/reported numerous bugs to Microsoft. I would never have made it my primary development environment, but I had some people on my team who liked it for that. I think your uninformed ad hominem attacks are really impolite by the way.

nikau 4y ago

That was the only real benefit of having a mac in my experience - they were always a niche and off the radar and didn't have the 20 different security tools on them crippling performance like the Windows SOE. Thankfully WSL2 on Windows is now an option, its also off the radar so whatever happens inside the Linux VM doesn't cop a performance hit.