4 ms·

This is ridiculous. Taiwan is a free and independent country. Shame on Apple.

bell-cot 4y ago
Perhaps. OTOH, my experience (modest n) is that a fairly large percentage of people are happy to say "Shame on Apple" for such things. Vs. a near-zero percentage are actually willing to avoid buying products made in (mainland) China, or with major components made there. Talk was cheap long before "Performative Activism" had its own Wikipedia page.
- BitwiseFool 4y ago
  >" Vs. a near-zero percentage are actually willing to avoid buying products made in (mainland) China, or with major components made there." Personally, I make a sincere effort to buy products that aren't made in China. I've been doing this for years but unfortunately avoiding things made in China is surprisingly difficult. When I end up buying products made in China, it isn't because of a lack of conviction, it is because there was no alternative I could find.
- 2OEH8eoCRo0 4y ago
  But how can I live without their 1% better touch pad and build quality?
- hunterb123 4y ago
  So OP can't shame Apple for this moral behavior because others buy Apple's product? Would you apply that same standard and does it hold up to other scenarios? If people were buying textile products from the slave trade, would you say "perhaps" when other (or the same) people shamed those industries for supporting slave labor? If people were buying nuts and fruit from exploited migrant workers, would you still be able to shame the industries for better conditions or to hire minimal wage workers? If people were buying cobalt or lithium mined from child slaves would you be able to shame those industries into sourcing minerals in a more humane way even though people buy EVs? Or because people bought those products those companies/industries have immunity from criticism? You cannot avoid products made in China because of the current status quo for the same reasons you couldn't avoid textiles made with slave cotton. That doesn't mean you can't advocate change to the status quo.
  - bell-cot 4y ago
    OP is free to say "Shame on Apple", boycott Apple, and publicly pray for the gods to smite Apple from On High. If OP's actual interest is in discouraging such corporate behavior, then only the second of those options seems likely to accomplish anything. Re: Cotton - even if every ill-treated cotton worker suddenly became a well-treated union member, there's still the huge moral problem of how much of the Earth's scarce fresh water and farmland are devoted to growing cotton - when millions of poor people face grim shortages of food and safe water. I admit that being an old geezer makes it easier, but my approach is to buy far fewer new clothes & textile products than the average American. That strategy completely fails to grant me 100% moral purity on the issue. OTOH, it does far more good than fashionable kids decrying the deplorable status quo.
    - hunterb123 4y ago
      First, my reply was to your retort of "perhaps" to GP's shaming of Apple. It's not perhaps, they should be shamed. Second, I was talking about the textile industry both in the past and today, ie: the transatlantic slave trade and Ughyur slave labor in China today. Sometimes you can't boycott because the entire industry is doing the morally corrupt thing. I and many people I know avoid Chinese products, but sometimes it's impossible. At the same time we can also voice our concern. There's not much a normal person can do other than boycott and protest, and I'm suggesting both. You're suggesting only one.
kepler1 4y ago
Hey, I'm so glad you recognize this principle! I'm of the belief that Hawaii belongs to the native Hawaiian people who the islands were stolen from by the US one hundred years ago, and whose descendants have been advocating that it be returned to them as a free and independent people and country. You're in favor of that, right?
- Pigalowda 4y ago
  Sure why not? I doubt an independent Hawaii would shut down friendly relations with the US and punt its military presence. They can have a referendum and see if they would like to lose their US citizenship Medicare/Social security.

Perhaps. OTOH, my experience (modest n) is that a fairly large percentage of people are happy to say "Shame on Apple" for such things. Vs. a near-zero percentage are actually willing to avoid buying products made in (mainland) China, or with major components made there. Talk was cheap long before "Performative Activism" had its own Wikipedia page.

BitwiseFool 4y ago
>" Vs. a near-zero percentage are actually willing to avoid buying products made in (mainland) China, or with major components made there." Personally, I make a sincere effort to buy products that aren't made in China. I've been doing this for years but unfortunately avoiding things made in China is surprisingly difficult. When I end up buying products made in China, it isn't because of a lack of conviction, it is because there was no alternative I could find.
2OEH8eoCRo0 4y ago
But how can I live without their 1% better touch pad and build quality?
hunterb123 4y ago
So OP can't shame Apple for this moral behavior because others buy Apple's product? Would you apply that same standard and does it hold up to other scenarios? If people were buying textile products from the slave trade, would you say "perhaps" when other (or the same) people shamed those industries for supporting slave labor? If people were buying nuts and fruit from exploited migrant workers, would you still be able to shame the industries for better conditions or to hire minimal wage workers? If people were buying cobalt or lithium mined from child slaves would you be able to shame those industries into sourcing minerals in a more humane way even though people buy EVs? Or because people bought those products those companies/industries have immunity from criticism? You cannot avoid products made in China because of the current status quo for the same reasons you couldn't avoid textiles made with slave cotton. That doesn't mean you can't advocate change to the status quo.
- bell-cot 4y ago
  OP is free to say "Shame on Apple", boycott Apple, and publicly pray for the gods to smite Apple from On High. If OP's actual interest is in discouraging such corporate behavior, then only the second of those options seems likely to accomplish anything. Re: Cotton - even if every ill-treated cotton worker suddenly became a well-treated union member, there's still the huge moral problem of how much of the Earth's scarce fresh water and farmland are devoted to growing cotton - when millions of poor people face grim shortages of food and safe water. I admit that being an old geezer makes it easier, but my approach is to buy far fewer new clothes & textile products than the average American. That strategy completely fails to grant me 100% moral purity on the issue. OTOH, it does far more good than fashionable kids decrying the deplorable status quo.
  - hunterb123 4y ago
    First, my reply was to your retort of "perhaps" to GP's shaming of Apple. It's not perhaps, they should be shamed. Second, I was talking about the textile industry both in the past and today, ie: the transatlantic slave trade and Ughyur slave labor in China today. Sometimes you can't boycott because the entire industry is doing the morally corrupt thing. I and many people I know avoid Chinese products, but sometimes it's impossible. At the same time we can also voice our concern. There's not much a normal person can do other than boycott and protest, and I'm suggesting both. You're suggesting only one.

kepler1 4y ago

Hey, I'm so glad you recognize this principle! I'm of the belief that Hawaii belongs to the native Hawaiian people who the islands were stolen from by the US one hundred years ago, and whose descendants have been advocating that it be returned to them as a free and independent people and country. You're in favor of that, right?

Pigalowda 4y ago
Sure why not? I doubt an independent Hawaii would shut down friendly relations with the US and punt its military presence. They can have a referendum and see if they would like to lose their US citizenship Medicare/Social security.