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I‘m a bit surprised that they care about the cost so much - the Dell laptops and the Apple Laptops come in at a price point of 2000 - 3000 USD and the Dell they

I‘m a bit surprised that they care about the cost so much - the Dell laptops and the Apple Laptops come in at a price point of 2000 - 3000 USD and the Dell they specifically recommend for Linux use comes with Windows Pro preinstalled. The price difference to the equivalent Linux version is around 70USD. That‘s a negligible difference, especially when you start comparing to the employees wage (It‘s probably about 1 hour of their time, one-time cost) If they‘d make the point based on lack of internal support capacity, I‘d understand, but caring about the one-time cost of the license is a very weak point.

mikeryan 4y ago
Where did they mention cost concerns? I’m reading this that it’s an IT/procurement hassle dealing with the Windows Pro upgrade licenses, on a platform they don’t feel is secure, not a cost issue.
- jaywalk 4y ago
  Any laptop above the absolute bottom tier can be purchased with a pre-installed Windows Professional license. It's a complete non-issue.
- Xylakant 4y ago
  The linux laptop they propose comes by default with an included Pro license, home edition would need to be selected extra. I haven‘t used Dell in a while, but I‘d assume that it behave like Lenovo and has the License Key baked right into the EFI, so there‘s literally no need to deal with any upgrade license if you proscribe which Laptop Model people are allowed to purchase (which they do) They also mention multiple times that Linux and MacOS are free, as opposed to Windows Pro - which can reasonably be read as „we don’t want to spend money here“, since otherwise you could just strike these arguments and revert to „we don‘t believe Windows Pro is secure“, which incidentally they never say.
  - mananaysiempre 4y ago
    They specifically mention Dell laptops with Ubuntu preinstalled.
    - Xylakant 4y ago
      If you follow the link to the model in their page, it selects the default version with Windows 11 PRO. You can explicitly choose Ubuntu, but it‘s not the default. My point here is „acquiring the license for a windows based laptop is a non-issue if you‘re willing to spend the 70USD it costs.“.
      - wyldberry 4y ago
        The problem is generally less the individual pro license and the associated enterprise licensing costs that come with managing said device in Azure AD/InTune.
        deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
nicce 4y ago
It is really weak argument. The software cost for example is included for MacBook price for sure. It just is not specifically separated.
muttled 4y ago
Most places I've worked at (Windows shops largely) had management tools that worked well on Windows but not as well on other devices. The IT staff was skilled largely in Windows, as well. The biggest argument against other OS options was that we simply did not have the tools and experience to effectively manage the other options. It's a valid argument, and seemed disingenuous to take digs at the other OS options when the reality was that we simply couldn't support a Mac well in an enterprise environment.
- Xylakant 4y ago
  I entirely agree - supporting multiple operating systems is effort at every level and from a certain size on, you need people with dedicated knowledge of each OS. But if that’s the problem, make that point instead of finding excuses.
- pid-1 4y ago
  It wasn't a limitation of the places you've worked at - endpoint management tools for Windows are light years ahead of the ones for Apple. Moreover said tools simply don't exist in Linux land.
  - number6 4y ago
    Linux has the best endpoint management tools: Ansible, Chef, Puppet, Terraform? Server management you say? How is a server different from a Laptop? It has Wayland installed or X11? Apple and windows aren't even in the same ballpark.
- jeffwask 4y ago
  Microsoft Windows with AzureAd and Intune provides a suite of tools for managing your fleet of laptops at little to no additional cost. It's honestly so much for free that running any other suite of laptops becomes arduous and expensive. It all just works out of the box and it's easy to bolt things on. The viruses and malware argument is ludicrous if you do any amount of end point protection. Apple is a walled garden. Everything is a degree of difficulty or two harder and you often run into weird ecosystem shit like some aspects of laptop mdm registration only working if the user has an iPhone. The tooling is 5-10 years behind, non-existent, or expensive because the third parties know they got you by the short and curlies. Linux is a build your own from open source ecosystem and what understaffed overworked IT team has time for that. I mean Google manages their Linux laptop fleet by rolling their own distro. Never mind all the compatibility issues with other required tooling that may or may not work. Some of these issue may have been easier to conquer in OnSite roles where laptops could be dropped at an IT cage but for full remote the Windows ecosystem has just gained more ground because of the iceberg of features most users never see.
mbreese 4y ago
I didn't read it as cost, but management overhead. It's easily possible to secure a Windows computer in an enterprise environment. They are fully remote and primarily a Mac shop, so they don't have that expertise or infrastructure. If you are running Linux on a Dell, then they assume you have the ability to manage that yourself. I see this more as a function of them being fully remote more than anything else.
- Xylakant 4y ago
  Then just say so instead of making excuses about security and cost. We also only buy a selected range of hardware and support a selected range of Operating Systems. But the reason is stated as “We currently don’t have the administrative capacity to support more than this. Period.” And that’s a fair reason and good reason and everyone understands that.

mikeryan 4y ago

Where did they mention cost concerns? I’m reading this that it’s an IT/procurement hassle dealing with the Windows Pro upgrade licenses, on a platform they don’t feel is secure, not a cost issue.

jaywalk 4y ago
Any laptop above the absolute bottom tier can be purchased with a pre-installed Windows Professional license. It's a complete non-issue.
Xylakant 4y ago
The linux laptop they propose comes by default with an included Pro license, home edition would need to be selected extra. I haven‘t used Dell in a while, but I‘d assume that it behave like Lenovo and has the License Key baked right into the EFI, so there‘s literally no need to deal with any upgrade license if you proscribe which Laptop Model people are allowed to purchase (which they do) They also mention multiple times that Linux and MacOS are free, as opposed to Windows Pro - which can reasonably be read as „we don’t want to spend money here“, since otherwise you could just strike these arguments and revert to „we don‘t believe Windows Pro is secure“, which incidentally they never say.
- mananaysiempre 4y ago
  They specifically mention Dell laptops with Ubuntu preinstalled.
  - Xylakant 4y ago
    If you follow the link to the model in their page, it selects the default version with Windows 11 PRO. You can explicitly choose Ubuntu, but it‘s not the default. My point here is „acquiring the license for a windows based laptop is a non-issue if you‘re willing to spend the 70USD it costs.“.
    - wyldberry 4y ago
      The problem is generally less the individual pro license and the associated enterprise licensing costs that come with managing said device in Azure AD/InTune.
      - deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]

nicce 4y ago

It is really weak argument. The software cost for example is included for MacBook price for sure. It just is not specifically separated.

muttled 4y ago

Most places I've worked at (Windows shops largely) had management tools that worked well on Windows but not as well on other devices. The IT staff was skilled largely in Windows, as well. The biggest argument against other OS options was that we simply did not have the tools and experience to effectively manage the other options. It's a valid argument, and seemed disingenuous to take digs at the other OS options when the reality was that we simply couldn't support a Mac well in an enterprise environment.

Xylakant 4y ago
I entirely agree - supporting multiple operating systems is effort at every level and from a certain size on, you need people with dedicated knowledge of each OS. But if that’s the problem, make that point instead of finding excuses.
pid-1 4y ago
It wasn't a limitation of the places you've worked at - endpoint management tools for Windows are light years ahead of the ones for Apple. Moreover said tools simply don't exist in Linux land.
- number6 4y ago
  Linux has the best endpoint management tools: Ansible, Chef, Puppet, Terraform? Server management you say? How is a server different from a Laptop? It has Wayland installed or X11? Apple and windows aren't even in the same ballpark.
jeffwask 4y ago
Microsoft Windows with AzureAd and Intune provides a suite of tools for managing your fleet of laptops at little to no additional cost. It's honestly so much for free that running any other suite of laptops becomes arduous and expensive. It all just works out of the box and it's easy to bolt things on. The viruses and malware argument is ludicrous if you do any amount of end point protection. Apple is a walled garden. Everything is a degree of difficulty or two harder and you often run into weird ecosystem shit like some aspects of laptop mdm registration only working if the user has an iPhone. The tooling is 5-10 years behind, non-existent, or expensive because the third parties know they got you by the short and curlies. Linux is a build your own from open source ecosystem and what understaffed overworked IT team has time for that. I mean Google manages their Linux laptop fleet by rolling their own distro. Never mind all the compatibility issues with other required tooling that may or may not work. Some of these issue may have been easier to conquer in OnSite roles where laptops could be dropped at an IT cage but for full remote the Windows ecosystem has just gained more ground because of the iceberg of features most users never see.

mbreese 4y ago

I didn't read it as cost, but management overhead. It's easily possible to secure a Windows computer in an enterprise environment. They are fully remote and primarily a Mac shop, so they don't have that expertise or infrastructure. If you are running Linux on a Dell, then they assume you have the ability to manage that yourself. I see this more as a function of them being fully remote more than anything else.

Xylakant 4y ago
Then just say so instead of making excuses about security and cost. We also only buy a selected range of hardware and support a selected range of Operating Systems. But the reason is stated as “We currently don’t have the administrative capacity to support more than this. Period.” And that’s a fair reason and good reason and everyone understands that.