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I am astounded how someone can sit on the stand and spew lie after lie after lie under oath with no repercussions.
by drexlspivey 4y ago
I am astounded how someone can sit on the stand and spew lie after lie after lie under oath with no repercussions.
- superb-owl 4y agoI mean...$4M is definitely a repercussion. But yeah, TBH he should probably spend time in jail.
- nrmitchi 4y ago$4M is a repercussion for spending years making up conspiracy theories and targetting the families of dead children. Also note that this is compensitory damages only, and hasn't even touch on punitive damagers yet. It has nothing to do with his perjury.
- superb-owl 4y agoYeah for sure. My impression though is that the perjury played a role in the decision here though...the opposing counsel definitely made a point of highlighting it over and over.
- khuey 4y agoPunitive damages are capped at low amounts in Texas and may not happen at all since they require unanimity (which the jury did not have on the compensatory verdict).
- dragonwriter 4y ago> Punitive damages are capped at low amounts in Texas Low multiples of compensatory damages would be more accurate.
- dragonwriter 4y agoAlso, this isn't a suit covering all the Sandy Hook families; I think to covers two. There are at least two other suits already in progress from other families on similar grounds
- snoopy_telex 4y agoIt’s only 5 days worth of his shows profits. And he received Ed a 7 million bitcoin donation a few days earlier, so there’s zero harm to him.
- bryanlarsen 4y agoThis is only compensatory damages. Punitive damages are still being considered, and are often a couple of orders of magnitude larger.
- frellus 4y agoThis wasn't a criminal trial. Although we all want to see our "political enemies" and indecent people everywhere punished, we have to stop calling for people to be jailed without clear crimes being committed. The whole "lock her up" for Hillary that the Trump crowd chanted disgusts me, but likewise so do people calling for Trump to be prosecuted and jailed when they cannot pin an actual crime on him. If we turn into a nation of "show me the man, I'll show you the crime" I will bugger off to a small island somewhere. We cannot rule by mob sentiment, laws matter.
- JJMcJ 4y agoAn additional $45 million in punitive damages just awarded by the jury.
- horsawlarway 4y agoFrankly - this is where I am. The system falls apart if it can't enforce its own rules, and if we don't see some serious perjury charges here, I think it's a very bad sign. The message will no longer be: It's unacceptable to cheat and lie to win. It will be: Cheat and lie better. -- edit: I'd like to see at least two felony perjury charges against Jones. Ideally with max sentences.
- hotpotamus 4y agoI always wonder what truly unlimited free speech would mean. How is it possible that perjury would be a crime? Fraud - just free speech right? And if money is speech, then corruption is just free speech as well. It doesn't really feel like it breaks the system down, it's more like does/did the system even exist?
- rbanffy 4y agoFree speech exists for a reason - to allow a society to introspect and for truth to be explored and expressed. When one monetizes lies and conspiracy theories, manufacturing false narratives as truth, speech ceases to offer a positive value to society and its freedom should be less protected. The justice system is designed to find out the truth about disputed events or actions. Deliberately lying to it is a direct attack on its mission and should be considered a criminal offence.
- onlyrealcuzzo 4y ago> Deliberately lying to it is a direct attack on its mission and should be considered a criminal offence. This is almost the definition of perjury.
- jokethrowaway 4y agoNone of the things you mentioned are free speech. The crime is deceiving through lies and fraud (or bribes), speech is just the tool used to achieve that.
- kordlessagain 4y agoHis functional processes are corrupt.
- frellus 4y agoThis is spot on. There is something really psychologically off with him, watching how he behaved on the stand: * fidgeted with everything * couldn't focus * couldn't follow simple instructions * would forget about something said a short time ago * has extreme paranoia, borderline schizophrenic to me
- fellowniusmonk 4y agoyeah, I guess lying under oath is no big deal? I always thought it mattered. I was deposed to give testimony once in a dispute between two other parties and it was nerve wracking to give testimony about a few questions because it was stuff I hadn't thought about in a couple of year. Turns out it's no big deal to lie under oath? This is really troubling, how can we have the rule of law if lying under oath is allowed for some people?
- MisterBastahrd 4y agoI'm not a lawyer, but I suspect that judges sorta know that people who are being sued or prosecuted are not exactly going to be reliable witnesses if they testify, and that it'd probably be a bigger deal if this were one of Jones' associates who wasn't on the hook for the money. There's also plenty of time for the judge to dial up some perjury referrals.
- vlovich123 4y agoI could be wrong but my understanding is that technically lawyers are liable if they put someone on the stand they know is going to lie. I’m surprised that isn’t enforced more often.
- MisterBastahrd 4y agoDefendants in any proceeding have the right to not self-incriminate. It's not the judge's responsibility to do the job for a lawyer that a defendant hires. Once they hit that witness stand, they're fair game.
- alfiedotwtf 4y agoIt probably has to do with how much money you have as well
- felipellrocha 4y agoIt's only a big deal if you're poor, though. It says so in the Constitution... /s
- jebronie 4y agoA person isn't lying if they think they are telling the truth.
- dymk 4y agoThat’s a lie
- lbriner 4y agoI assume you mean that it's a defence that you thought it was true so you didn't commit a crime. That might be true at the beginning but I'm sure high-profile people like Alex Jones have enough exposure for people to put them straight at which point it becomes less of an excuse!
- seb1204 4y agoThat was my initial assumption too. By now I think people like Alex Jones are so far removed that every decent, same and integer human being has left his bubble. Some out of disgust, some after they tried to influence him towards society. In the end they left for their own safety/sanity. This would also be an explanation why his defence was a mess. Amber Heard is a similar case. Lawyers who side with his views and find defendable positions might not be at the top of the lawyer ladder. It's a working theory.
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- rsynnott 4y agoWhile that's broadly true, it's clearly not the case here.
- JTbane 4y agoIt's how he became a media personality among right-wingers, make up the most outlandish and inflammatory things to get attention. Plato covered this in the Republic.
- iambateman 4y agoI wouldn’t be surprised if there are perjury charges on the way. Things like that take longer than we would like, but DA’s saw the same stuff we all saw.
- titzer 4y agoIf there are no consequences for anything, the system is coming apart. There is a good goddamn reason why lying under oath, or even lying to investigators, is a crime, because truth is the bedrock of accountability. Truth is always the first victim of psychopaths.
- SketchySeaBeast 4y agoDoesn't this assume the system ever worked? Is this actually a sign of the decline of civilization, or just that we are able to aware of the status quo now?
- chmod600 4y agoLying to investigators shouldn't be a crime, in my opinion. It too often creates a situation where you can just investigate someone endlessly, find no real evidence, and then convict them of lying based on some flimsy inconsistencies in their statements. I suppose some specific kinds of lies could be crimes, but there should be a high bar for both the type of lie told as well as the certainty that it's really a lie.
- throwaway0a5e 4y agoThe feds use this all the time. "plead guilty to this thing we probably can't get a jury conviction on and we'll drop the lying charge we can easily prove"
- titzer 4y agoThat's why there is the fifth amendment. > there should be a high bar for both the type of lie told as well as the certainty that it's really a lie. Perjury convictions are a fairly high bar. People don't generally get charged for "flimsy inconsistencies in their statements." Prosecutors, judges, and juries don't have endless time to spend on getting someone.
- chmod600 4y agoLying to an investigator is not perjury. It's a separate crime.
- jefftk 4y agoWhy do you think there won't be repercussions?
- jackmott42 4y agoBecause we have spent the last 6 years watching dozens and dozens of bad actors get away with it, and never facing repercussion and we have become incredibly cynical of anyone wealthy ever facing justice.
- jefftk 4y agoIn this case it's too soon to tell what's going to happen; he could still have additional consequences for the perjury. Link to one of these past perjury situations where there were no repercussions?
- clankyclanker 4y agoIt does happen sometimes. My personal favorite example is this guy. I recommend search terms like "james clapper perjury congress". If this fish never got fried in the biggest pan of all, what chance do these little chefs have? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Clapper https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Clapper See: https://jonathanturley.org/2013/07/03/perjury-by-permission-clapper-apologizes-for-false-testimony-and-the-congress-remains-silent/ https://jonathanturley.org/2013/07/03/perjury-by-permission-... https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2018/01/19/james-clappers-perjury-dc-made-men-dont-get-charged-lying-congress-jonathan-turley-column/1045991001/ https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2018/01/19/james-clap... https://apnews.com/article/business-33a88feb083ea35515de3c73e3d854ad https://apnews.com/article/business-33a88feb083ea35515de3c73...
- jefftk 4y agoJones' perjury was way clearer than Clapper's. Additionally, Clapper was part of the government, testifying on something the government wanted kept quiet.
- noasaservice 4y agoLike what police do regularly? I sat in a jury for a DUI case. Their lead witness, a narcotics cop, lied blatantly on the stand in complete opposition to his deposition. We jurors made up our minds 10 minutes in - not guilty. But this cop? He perjured himself. And not so much as a peep from the judge.
- lostcolony 4y agoI think part of the problem with perjury is that if it's detectable you only have hurt your own case, and if it isn't detected it can't be tried. This might be somewhat unique in that the perjury charges relate to hiding evidence as well (rather than just running counter to the evidence). And, obviously, that Alex Jones isn't a cop, so that particular fetishism of law enforcement the US operates under doesn't apply.
- AnimalMuppet 4y agoWhy do you assume that there were no repercussions? The jury got to see that he was a liar. Do you think that played no part in their decision? Do you think it will play no part in their decision on punitive damages? Or did you mean something more like prison? The provable perjury happened, what, two days ago? Indictments like that don't happen overnight, but I hope (and maybe even trust) that it is in fact coming.