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I'm not sure how many Chinese HN users we have...but I'd personally love to see them chime in occasionally on this topic. My personal experience/conclusions dr

I'm not sure how many Chinese HN users we have...but I'd personally love to see them chime in occasionally on this topic. My personal experience/conclusions drawn from business, experiences in grad school etc. (so obviously not worth much and poorly sourced from a data perspective) are that certain seemingly obvious concepts like "cheating" or "stealing" are just fundamentally understood differently and not ingrained in a Western compatible way culturally in China. There seems to be deep differences there that manifest in all kinds of ways.

bmitc 4y ago
I'm not sure it's part of personal or societal culture. The Chinese people I know, granted who are all highly educated and also some of the nicest people I know period, do not abide by this culture of stealing/copying and find it as frustrating as anyone. So in my opinion, it's more of an economic and possibly state-driven culture.
chris_st 4y ago
Bunnie Huang [1] has written/spoke on this topic. I think he mentions it in the Shenzen documentary [2]. Quote from the documentary page: > We examine the unique manufacturing ecosystem that has emerged, gaining access to the world’s leading hardware-prototyping culture whilst challenging misconceptions from the west. The film looks at how the evolution of “Shanzhai” – or copycat manufacturing – has transformed traditional models of business, distribution and innovation, and asks what the rest of the world can learn from this so-called “Silicon Valley of hardware". 1: https://www.bunniestudios.com https://www.bunniestudios.com 2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SGJ5cZnoodY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SGJ5cZnoodY
greiskul 4y ago
"Stealing" and "cheating" was also the US way before it became the top dog. Intelectual property on patents has always been used as a tool for the current world powers to try to cement themselves as permanent world powers. But it doesn't work, other countries are also sovereign, and they don't have to respect US laws made to create US monopolies.
- ssnistfajen 4y ago
  Most of the accusations about IP theft don't even involve actual registered IP. The fact that users on HN repeatedly fall into this pit shows how much the discussion has deteriorated on what's supposedly a platform less saturated with junk info like mainstream forums.
liuliu 4y ago
Well, can IP be stolen? It is a state-protected monopoly. If you steal my IP, we both have these IPs. Using the word "stealing" is fundamentally wrong about intellectual creations. What frustrating me more is that Roborock cannot use the double-roller design iRobot has due to patents.
telchior 4y ago
I think if a culture finds out that doing a particular thing benefits it greatly, and that it cannot be punished for doing that thing... it will do that thing. This idea of "cultural differences in the idea of stealing" is a bit silly. It's based on self-reports of the people who are stealing, and making massive amounts of money from the theft. Rationalizations, in other words. In all honesty, if I could "steal" from a culture with a far superior level of technology without repercussion, in order to sell products mainly within my own culture, I'd do it too. It's still a benefit to the whole group, isn't it? The same story plays out every time this power dynamic comes up, and in far more varied patterns than people talk about (e.g. Japan "stealing" transistor designs to start its electronics giants, with the cooperation of a few Americans but still against moral values).
- chillacy 4y ago
  On this note it’s always useful to reflect upon the era where the US also had a cultural acceptance of “stealing” technology from the UK, since America wasn’t always such a tech leader. Also the story goes that the Wild West was so famous for not enforcing Edison’s patents, an entire industry formed to take advantage: Hollywood.
ssnistfajen 4y ago
No sane human being would willingly step into an openly hostile environment to share their genuine opinions when there is a very obvious risk of being dehumanized, dismissed, and viciously attacked with but not limited to slurs and abusive wording, Chinese or otherwise. Every major English-speaking social media/web forum has been embroiled with open hatred towards everyone and everything Chinese regardless of context or politics for more than a half decade by now.

bmitc 4y ago

I'm not sure it's part of personal or societal culture. The Chinese people I know, granted who are all highly educated and also some of the nicest people I know period, do not abide by this culture of stealing/copying and find it as frustrating as anyone. So in my opinion, it's more of an economic and possibly state-driven culture.

chris_st 4y ago

Bunnie Huang [1] has written/spoke on this topic. I think he mentions it in the Shenzen documentary [2]. Quote from the documentary page: > We examine the unique manufacturing ecosystem that has emerged, gaining access to the world’s leading hardware-prototyping culture whilst challenging misconceptions from the west. The film looks at how the evolution of “Shanzhai” – or copycat manufacturing – has transformed traditional models of business, distribution and innovation, and asks what the rest of the world can learn from this so-called “Silicon Valley of hardware". 1: https://www.bunniestudios.com https://www.bunniestudios.com 2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SGJ5cZnoodY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SGJ5cZnoodY

greiskul 4y ago

"Stealing" and "cheating" was also the US way before it became the top dog. Intelectual property on patents has always been used as a tool for the current world powers to try to cement themselves as permanent world powers. But it doesn't work, other countries are also sovereign, and they don't have to respect US laws made to create US monopolies.

ssnistfajen 4y ago
Most of the accusations about IP theft don't even involve actual registered IP. The fact that users on HN repeatedly fall into this pit shows how much the discussion has deteriorated on what's supposedly a platform less saturated with junk info like mainstream forums.

liuliu 4y ago

Well, can IP be stolen? It is a state-protected monopoly. If you steal my IP, we both have these IPs. Using the word "stealing" is fundamentally wrong about intellectual creations. What frustrating me more is that Roborock cannot use the double-roller design iRobot has due to patents.

telchior 4y ago

I think if a culture finds out that doing a particular thing benefits it greatly, and that it cannot be punished for doing that thing... it will do that thing. This idea of "cultural differences in the idea of stealing" is a bit silly. It's based on self-reports of the people who are stealing, and making massive amounts of money from the theft. Rationalizations, in other words. In all honesty, if I could "steal" from a culture with a far superior level of technology without repercussion, in order to sell products mainly within my own culture, I'd do it too. It's still a benefit to the whole group, isn't it? The same story plays out every time this power dynamic comes up, and in far more varied patterns than people talk about (e.g. Japan "stealing" transistor designs to start its electronics giants, with the cooperation of a few Americans but still against moral values).

chillacy 4y ago
On this note it’s always useful to reflect upon the era where the US also had a cultural acceptance of “stealing” technology from the UK, since America wasn’t always such a tech leader. Also the story goes that the Wild West was so famous for not enforcing Edison’s patents, an entire industry formed to take advantage: Hollywood.

ssnistfajen 4y ago

No sane human being would willingly step into an openly hostile environment to share their genuine opinions when there is a very obvious risk of being dehumanized, dismissed, and viciously attacked with but not limited to slurs and abusive wording, Chinese or otherwise. Every major English-speaking social media/web forum has been embroiled with open hatred towards everyone and everything Chinese regardless of context or politics for more than a half decade by now.