4 ms·

I can recall when architecture made to last was something to be proud of. Nightmare waiting to happen if you live in a Tornado, Earthquake, Hurricane etc zone

traverseda 4y ago
You don't think cement and foam insulation will last long enough, or be sturdy enough?
nemo44x 4y ago
We haven’t built residential structures for longevity since WW2. Nearly every home built after 1945 is garbage compared to pre-war homes that have been taken care of. The irony is that in 100 years you’re more likely to come across a home built in 1920 than in 1980. And there’s a few reasons why. Old homes were overbuilt. The engineering wasn’t good enough to really know what they could get away with. Old homes are built with old growth wood. This can’t be had today. This wood is incredible and is naturally rot resistant. Taken care of it will last many hundreds of years. Plastics. They really came into their own during WW2 and found their way into construction because they work for awhile and are dirt cheap. So we have cheap windows, cheap siding, flooring, etc. Gone are the days where great materials were necessary and abundant so adding a bit more craftsmanship was marginal. Buy a pre-war home and invest in it. Keep the original windows and restore them.
- bluGill 4y ago
  Survivership basis. There were a lot of bad houses made before WWII, but they have mostly been torn down. The better quality houses are still around. That and most people don't have a clue what makes a good house, and look at the wrong thing. You see a large post and don't notice the hidden beams that are not strong enough. Modern houses are built to stand up to much strong wind forces than the houses of old, but all that quality is inside the walls where you can't see any difference. In many cases they difference is something you wouldn't even notice if you could compare the inside of the two walls side by side.
  - nemo44x 4y ago
    That's a good point about survivorship bias but I do wonder about it. There are vast swaths of homes out East that are all pre-war. They're in places where people took care of the homes though and have had them updated over the years. In essence, any home is slowly being rebuilt from the day it is finished. And if you don't take those steps then the home falls into disrepair and can't really be reasonably saved. We saw a lot of this when people wanted new homes in the new suburbs starting in the late 1940's. The pre-war homes were sold to poorer people who couldn't afford or didn't understand they had to repair the homes. They were quality homes but many of them have been knocked down due to that. And yes, there were also kit homes and other cheaper construction. Homes with dirt floors, no plumbing, etc. My grandmother grew up in a small 3 room home with outdoor plumbing and she had 7 siblings - no one can imagine living like that today. It would be considered inhumane. So yeah, that kind of stuff is gone too. But even the highest quality construction today pales in many ways. For instance, top of the line windows from Marvin aren't as good as the windows that exist today in many pre-war homes. So long as they have been restored, weather stripped, storm windows added, etc. That 100 year window will continue to outlive the highest end windows from today's top brands, if it's maintained.
- danans 4y ago
  > Old homes were overbuilt. Except when they weren't. For example, brick foundations that preceded reinforced concrete haven't held up well. They generally all need to be replaced at great expense. > Old homes are built with old growth wood. This can’t be had today. This wood is incredible and is naturally rot resistant. As you say it can't be had today and there aren't enough old homes in places people want to live to make it matter. > Taken care of it will last many hundreds of years. But the whole point of old growth wood is that you don't need to take care of it as much since it is pretty resilient to getting wet. It's newer wood and manufactured materials that often need more care since they are less resilient. Also, prewar homes use huge amounts of energy for heating - which is a big reason the old growth wood lasted: it was being blasted with heat from the inside the whole winter, so condensation got dried out (the people too). > Plastics. They really came into their own during WW2 and found their way into construction because they work for awhile and are dirt cheap. So we have cheap windows, cheap siding, flooring, There are incredible fiberglass and UPVC windows being made today by companies like Marvin and Schuco. Yes, there has been a history of poor quality manufactured building materials, but some of the most reliable components today contain plastics. > Buy a pre-war home and invest in it. Keep the original windows and restore them. The reality is that people buy homes for location, and the period of the home is a usually a secondary consideration.
  - nemo44x 4y ago
    > There are incredible fiberglass and UPVC windows being made today by companies like Marvin and Schuco. Yes, there has been a history of poor quality manufactured building materials, but some of the most reliable materials today are plastic based. I have the highest end Marvin windows (Ultimate double hung sash windows) in the addition part of my home and they don't compare to the original windows IMO. They're great, but I expect in 100 years they will have been replaced and the original windows will still be hanging. > But the whole point of old growth wood is that you don't need to take care of it as much since it is pretty resilient to getting wet. I'm just saying, typical home maintenance. Replacing the roofing, keeping gutters clear, etc. > The reality is that people buy homes for location, and the period of the home is a usually a secondary consideration. Totally. There are a lot of areas that are a mix of old and new. I'm just saying, given the option and things being equal, I'd almost always select the old home.

traverseda 4y ago

You don't think cement and foam insulation will last long enough, or be sturdy enough?

nemo44x 4y ago

We haven’t built residential structures for longevity since WW2. Nearly every home built after 1945 is garbage compared to pre-war homes that have been taken care of. The irony is that in 100 years you’re more likely to come across a home built in 1920 than in 1980. And there’s a few reasons why. Old homes were overbuilt. The engineering wasn’t good enough to really know what they could get away with. Old homes are built with old growth wood. This can’t be had today. This wood is incredible and is naturally rot resistant. Taken care of it will last many hundreds of years. Plastics. They really came into their own during WW2 and found their way into construction because they work for awhile and are dirt cheap. So we have cheap windows, cheap siding, flooring, etc. Gone are the days where great materials were necessary and abundant so adding a bit more craftsmanship was marginal. Buy a pre-war home and invest in it. Keep the original windows and restore them.

bluGill 4y ago
Survivership basis. There were a lot of bad houses made before WWII, but they have mostly been torn down. The better quality houses are still around. That and most people don't have a clue what makes a good house, and look at the wrong thing. You see a large post and don't notice the hidden beams that are not strong enough. Modern houses are built to stand up to much strong wind forces than the houses of old, but all that quality is inside the walls where you can't see any difference. In many cases they difference is something you wouldn't even notice if you could compare the inside of the two walls side by side.
- nemo44x 4y ago
  That's a good point about survivorship bias but I do wonder about it. There are vast swaths of homes out East that are all pre-war. They're in places where people took care of the homes though and have had them updated over the years. In essence, any home is slowly being rebuilt from the day it is finished. And if you don't take those steps then the home falls into disrepair and can't really be reasonably saved. We saw a lot of this when people wanted new homes in the new suburbs starting in the late 1940's. The pre-war homes were sold to poorer people who couldn't afford or didn't understand they had to repair the homes. They were quality homes but many of them have been knocked down due to that. And yes, there were also kit homes and other cheaper construction. Homes with dirt floors, no plumbing, etc. My grandmother grew up in a small 3 room home with outdoor plumbing and she had 7 siblings - no one can imagine living like that today. It would be considered inhumane. So yeah, that kind of stuff is gone too. But even the highest quality construction today pales in many ways. For instance, top of the line windows from Marvin aren't as good as the windows that exist today in many pre-war homes. So long as they have been restored, weather stripped, storm windows added, etc. That 100 year window will continue to outlive the highest end windows from today's top brands, if it's maintained.
danans 4y ago
> Old homes were overbuilt. Except when they weren't. For example, brick foundations that preceded reinforced concrete haven't held up well. They generally all need to be replaced at great expense. > Old homes are built with old growth wood. This can’t be had today. This wood is incredible and is naturally rot resistant. As you say it can't be had today and there aren't enough old homes in places people want to live to make it matter. > Taken care of it will last many hundreds of years. But the whole point of old growth wood is that you don't need to take care of it as much since it is pretty resilient to getting wet. It's newer wood and manufactured materials that often need more care since they are less resilient. Also, prewar homes use huge amounts of energy for heating - which is a big reason the old growth wood lasted: it was being blasted with heat from the inside the whole winter, so condensation got dried out (the people too). > Plastics. They really came into their own during WW2 and found their way into construction because they work for awhile and are dirt cheap. So we have cheap windows, cheap siding, flooring, There are incredible fiberglass and UPVC windows being made today by companies like Marvin and Schuco. Yes, there has been a history of poor quality manufactured building materials, but some of the most reliable components today contain plastics. > Buy a pre-war home and invest in it. Keep the original windows and restore them. The reality is that people buy homes for location, and the period of the home is a usually a secondary consideration.
- nemo44x 4y ago
  > There are incredible fiberglass and UPVC windows being made today by companies like Marvin and Schuco. Yes, there has been a history of poor quality manufactured building materials, but some of the most reliable materials today are plastic based. I have the highest end Marvin windows (Ultimate double hung sash windows) in the addition part of my home and they don't compare to the original windows IMO. They're great, but I expect in 100 years they will have been replaced and the original windows will still be hanging. > But the whole point of old growth wood is that you don't need to take care of it as much since it is pretty resilient to getting wet. I'm just saying, typical home maintenance. Replacing the roofing, keeping gutters clear, etc. > The reality is that people buy homes for location, and the period of the home is a usually a secondary consideration. Totally. There are a lot of areas that are a mix of old and new. I'm just saying, given the option and things being equal, I'd almost always select the old home.