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Instead of creating more opportunities for car drivers I would prefer a cycle tunnel. I think some of the drivers who are currently using the Blackwall tunnel

Instead of creating more opportunities for car drivers I would prefer a cycle tunnel. I think some of the drivers who are currently using the Blackwall tunnel would switch to cycling if this was available. Currently getting across the river in that area on bicycle is very difficult. You would have to ride to the greenwich foot tunnel and walk. To me that would be a cheaper and quicker win.

alecco 4y ago
Bikers are light. A bike and pedestrian tall bridge makes more sense. And it can double as tourist attraction. See London's Millenium Bridge.
- Reason077 4y ago
  A bridge across the Thames needs to be very tall to allow ships to pass underneath. Or have the ability to open up for ship traffic like Tower Bridge. This is why tunnels are likely to be cheaper/easier.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
TheFattestNinja 4y ago
I mean, on paper you'd have to walk the tunnel. In practice, everyone rides their bike, scooter or whatever in the tunnel. And honestly I find it really hard to blame them: sure it's "forbidden", but I'd do the same if I was them (as long as you are not just speeding like a madman)
- ZeroGravitas 4y ago
  Why do they have to walk? Is this a london thing? Or is it just this one tunnel? Answering my own question, it's quite a small, two way traffic tunnel. https://mobile.twitter.com/GreenwichLift/status/1554852180884176899 https://mobile.twitter.com/GreenwichLift/status/155485218088...
  - mdpye 4y ago
    Rule of the specific tunnel. Its not particularly spacious...
- MafellUser 4y ago
  That's false, Blackwall tunnel is completely banned for non-motor traffic. The pedestrian path way is for emergency use only and it's blocked off at both ends. Going down there with a bike is suicidal and also prohibited. During my 7 years commute on the A2 I have never seen a single bicycle down the tunnel. You sure you're not mistaken for Rotherhithe tunnel? edit: I see you're referring to Greenwich tunnel. Fair points.
  - ianpurton 4y ago
    I am referring to the Greenwich tunnel. Rotherhithe tunnel does allow bikes but it's pretty scarey, you're right next to the cars.
ZeroGravitas 4y ago
Since they're building it right next to an existing tunnel, and the main reason given is for double decker busses, it seems like it would be fairly easy to make it zero emissions vehicles only and add a bike lane too. Existing, non-zero emissions vehicles can use the old tunnel and be phased out over time, lane by lane. edit: but on reading more, it seems mostly to be about charging HGV tolls.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- scoot 4y ago
  If they're having to build a tunnel specifically to accommodate double decker busses that are "just a bit too tall", it sounds like whoever procured the "Boris busses" didn't do their homework, so now we're spending millions to fix something that could have been solved at no cost by buying slightly smaller busses?
timini 4y ago
This is an excellent idea TBH
Reason077 4y ago
> "Currently getting across the river in that area on bicycle is very difficult. You would have to ride to the greenwich foot tunnel and walk." I jokingly call it the "Greenwich cycle tunnel" because there's always a large number of people cycling through it despite the many signs saying it's forbidden! IMO a cycle/pedestrian crossing between the Canada Water/Surry Docks area and Canary Wharf (replacing the existing expensive ferry) would be a game changer that would lead to greatly increased development on the south side. But unlikely to happen because it's hard to put a toll on a cycle/pedestrian crossing to pay for it!
- krisoft 4y ago
  > because it's hard to put a toll on a cycle/pedestrian crossing In a political sense maybe, but in a technical sense that's just what is already done with subway turnstiles.
doublesocket 4y ago
I've always liked the idea of turning the northbound blackwall tunnel into a combined underground shopping centre/cycle lane/footpath. It's ill-suited to motor vehicles in any case and could be replaced with a new northbound vehicle tunnel. Idea would be to split the tunnel into two levels with a deck, have the lower right hand lane for cyclists (two way), upper right hand side for pedestrians and the entire left side for shops with frequent stairs/lifts for access between the two levels. London had this years ago in the form of the Thames Tunnel, however the gloomy gas lighting meant it didn't last long as a pedestrian tunnel. With modern lighting and ventilation I wonder if this is a possiblity.

alecco 4y ago

Bikers are light. A bike and pedestrian tall bridge makes more sense. And it can double as tourist attraction. See London's Millenium Bridge.

Reason077 4y ago
A bridge across the Thames needs to be very tall to allow ships to pass underneath. Or have the ability to open up for ship traffic like Tower Bridge. This is why tunnels are likely to be cheaper/easier.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]

TheFattestNinja 4y ago

I mean, on paper you'd have to walk the tunnel. In practice, everyone rides their bike, scooter or whatever in the tunnel. And honestly I find it really hard to blame them: sure it's "forbidden", but I'd do the same if I was them (as long as you are not just speeding like a madman)

ZeroGravitas 4y ago
Why do they have to walk? Is this a london thing? Or is it just this one tunnel? Answering my own question, it's quite a small, two way traffic tunnel. https://mobile.twitter.com/GreenwichLift/status/1554852180884176899 https://mobile.twitter.com/GreenwichLift/status/155485218088...
- mdpye 4y ago
  Rule of the specific tunnel. Its not particularly spacious...
MafellUser 4y ago
That's false, Blackwall tunnel is completely banned for non-motor traffic. The pedestrian path way is for emergency use only and it's blocked off at both ends. Going down there with a bike is suicidal and also prohibited. During my 7 years commute on the A2 I have never seen a single bicycle down the tunnel. You sure you're not mistaken for Rotherhithe tunnel? edit: I see you're referring to Greenwich tunnel. Fair points.
- ianpurton 4y ago
  I am referring to the Greenwich tunnel. Rotherhithe tunnel does allow bikes but it's pretty scarey, you're right next to the cars.

ZeroGravitas 4y ago

Since they're building it right next to an existing tunnel, and the main reason given is for double decker busses, it seems like it would be fairly easy to make it zero emissions vehicles only and add a bike lane too. Existing, non-zero emissions vehicles can use the old tunnel and be phased out over time, lane by lane. edit: but on reading more, it seems mostly to be about charging HGV tolls.

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
scoot 4y ago
If they're having to build a tunnel specifically to accommodate double decker busses that are "just a bit too tall", it sounds like whoever procured the "Boris busses" didn't do their homework, so now we're spending millions to fix something that could have been solved at no cost by buying slightly smaller busses?

timini 4y ago

This is an excellent idea TBH

Reason077 4y ago

> "Currently getting across the river in that area on bicycle is very difficult. You would have to ride to the greenwich foot tunnel and walk." I jokingly call it the "Greenwich cycle tunnel" because there's always a large number of people cycling through it despite the many signs saying it's forbidden! IMO a cycle/pedestrian crossing between the Canada Water/Surry Docks area and Canary Wharf (replacing the existing expensive ferry) would be a game changer that would lead to greatly increased development on the south side. But unlikely to happen because it's hard to put a toll on a cycle/pedestrian crossing to pay for it!

krisoft 4y ago
> because it's hard to put a toll on a cycle/pedestrian crossing In a political sense maybe, but in a technical sense that's just what is already done with subway turnstiles.

doublesocket 4y ago

I've always liked the idea of turning the northbound blackwall tunnel into a combined underground shopping centre/cycle lane/footpath. It's ill-suited to motor vehicles in any case and could be replaced with a new northbound vehicle tunnel. Idea would be to split the tunnel into two levels with a deck, have the lower right hand lane for cyclists (two way), upper right hand side for pedestrians and the entire left side for shops with frequent stairs/lifts for access between the two levels. London had this years ago in the form of the Thames Tunnel, however the gloomy gas lighting meant it didn't last long as a pedestrian tunnel. With modern lighting and ventilation I wonder if this is a possiblity.