4 ms·

I also find New York City to be extremely depressing, and radically subpar urbanistically compared with Berlin, where I currently live. You can take an S-Bahn i

I also find New York City to be extremely depressing, and radically subpar urbanistically compared with Berlin, where I currently live. You can take an S-Bahn in 30 minutes or so to S-Bahn Schlachtensee and swim clean, chill and easily accessible lake - a journey to the water in New York will take much much longer, involve more walking, and involve dirtier water. It is easy to find scapegoats for the poor urbanism of the United States, but very difficult to think of a solution without a radical change in the nature of governance.

cjrp 4y ago
And in Berlin you can cycle! I'm not a regular cyclist, but on holiday I felt totally comfortable renting a bike and using the bike lanes to get around.
- ido 4y ago
  As a resident of Berlin (that likes living there) I feel it's important to also mention NYC has almost 2.5 times as many people and unlike Berlin is part of a large urban agglomeration (the northeast megalopolis - total population ~50m). It's not quite a fair comparison.
  - throwaway894345 4y ago
    Right, but the original comment was (condescendingly) comparing NYC to middle America, so differing densities and other demographics are precisely the point.
    - m_ke 4y ago
      No, my point was about the car centric bend of a large portion of suburban / rural America. I wrote that message at like 1am, see my comment here for what I meant https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32355777 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32355777 Compare Pittsburgh suburb (https://goo.gl/maps/bFBWcsJ6EeL1kgVe7 https://goo.gl/maps/bFBWcsJ6EeL1kgVe7) to the suburbs of the town that I was born in (https://goo.gl/maps/ktkWzAUa3tyz37hQ7 https://goo.gl/maps/ktkWzAUa3tyz37hQ7). This is an even better example: https://goo.gl/maps/cAECdLXaBVoErtsFA https://goo.gl/maps/cAECdLXaBVoErtsFA vs https://goo.gl/maps/oBmruFK2Sqaxg6TW7 https://goo.gl/maps/oBmruFK2Sqaxg6TW7 EDIT: Same goes for the Bay Area, staying by YC offices for the interviews was depressing too. Look at this: https://goo.gl/maps/ERCkS7zrHw8tM2or9 https://goo.gl/maps/ERCkS7zrHw8tM2or9
    - evolve2k 4y ago
      NotJustBikes has some excellent videos on the differences between US and European cities, this one captures many of the issues - https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=oHlpmxLTxpw https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=oHlpmxLTxpw
- Reason077 4y ago
  > "And in Berlin you can cycle!" You can certainly cycle in New York. Cycling has increased dramatically in New York City over the past decade or so with the installation of more cycle-friendly infrastructure, including over 100 miles of protected bike lanes, city bike sharing, e-bike rental apps, etc.
- ahoy 4y ago
  Cycling in nyc has changed drastically in the last decade. It's almost good now!
busterarm 4y ago
And for all of the cleanliness and convenience you also have to put up with 3/4 of the population blowing their cigarette smoke in your face. Especially indoors in bars, despite it being illegal.
- EL_Loco 4y ago
  What? Smoking indoors is illegal in Germany, yet germans do it outright? This is a blow to the stereotype of the 100%-law-abiding-germans that I grew up with here in only-12%-law-abiding-south-america. I'm actually being serious. I never thought that germans would smoke indoors if it became illegal. I mean, here in Brazil it's illegal (I think it became illegal in the early 2000's) and nobody does it.
  - Sebb767 4y ago
    I'm from Germany and this is pretty unusual. There are very few pubs where smoking is kind-of tolerated and sometimes a drunk person will light a cigarette in a club, but it's really rare and absolutely a non-issue in my experience.
    - tlarkworthy 4y ago
      I live in Berlin and u must have not been out here coz many places, especially clubs, allow smoking indoors.
      - Sebb767 4y ago
        I didn't experience this in Berlin; to be fair, however, I didn't spend much time in Bars there.
    - itsthejb 4y ago
      In Berlin, the inside smoking laws are pretty much never enforced. Some bars have dedicated smoking rooms, but many don’t. As for clubs, you can mostly expect smoking indoors. A lot of people smoke, so you _will_ encounter smokey environments when out and about, especially during the winter
novok 4y ago
People use new york because it's the best america has. When you have the whole world, there are better places.
rufus_foreman 4y ago
>> a journey to the water in New York will take much much longer, involve more walking, and involve dirtier water It's not hard, not far to reach.

cjrp 4y ago

And in Berlin you can cycle! I'm not a regular cyclist, but on holiday I felt totally comfortable renting a bike and using the bike lanes to get around.

ido 4y ago
As a resident of Berlin (that likes living there) I feel it's important to also mention NYC has almost 2.5 times as many people and unlike Berlin is part of a large urban agglomeration (the northeast megalopolis - total population ~50m). It's not quite a fair comparison.
- throwaway894345 4y ago
  Right, but the original comment was (condescendingly) comparing NYC to middle America, so differing densities and other demographics are precisely the point.
  - m_ke 4y ago
    No, my point was about the car centric bend of a large portion of suburban / rural America. I wrote that message at like 1am, see my comment here for what I meant https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32355777 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32355777 Compare Pittsburgh suburb (https://goo.gl/maps/bFBWcsJ6EeL1kgVe7 https://goo.gl/maps/bFBWcsJ6EeL1kgVe7) to the suburbs of the town that I was born in (https://goo.gl/maps/ktkWzAUa3tyz37hQ7 https://goo.gl/maps/ktkWzAUa3tyz37hQ7). This is an even better example: https://goo.gl/maps/cAECdLXaBVoErtsFA https://goo.gl/maps/cAECdLXaBVoErtsFA vs https://goo.gl/maps/oBmruFK2Sqaxg6TW7 https://goo.gl/maps/oBmruFK2Sqaxg6TW7 EDIT: Same goes for the Bay Area, staying by YC offices for the interviews was depressing too. Look at this: https://goo.gl/maps/ERCkS7zrHw8tM2or9 https://goo.gl/maps/ERCkS7zrHw8tM2or9
  - evolve2k 4y ago
    NotJustBikes has some excellent videos on the differences between US and European cities, this one captures many of the issues - https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=oHlpmxLTxpw https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=oHlpmxLTxpw
Reason077 4y ago
> "And in Berlin you can cycle!" You can certainly cycle in New York. Cycling has increased dramatically in New York City over the past decade or so with the installation of more cycle-friendly infrastructure, including over 100 miles of protected bike lanes, city bike sharing, e-bike rental apps, etc.
ahoy 4y ago
Cycling in nyc has changed drastically in the last decade. It's almost good now!

busterarm 4y ago

And for all of the cleanliness and convenience you also have to put up with 3/4 of the population blowing their cigarette smoke in your face. Especially indoors in bars, despite it being illegal.

EL_Loco 4y ago
What? Smoking indoors is illegal in Germany, yet germans do it outright? This is a blow to the stereotype of the 100%-law-abiding-germans that I grew up with here in only-12%-law-abiding-south-america. I'm actually being serious. I never thought that germans would smoke indoors if it became illegal. I mean, here in Brazil it's illegal (I think it became illegal in the early 2000's) and nobody does it.
- Sebb767 4y ago
  I'm from Germany and this is pretty unusual. There are very few pubs where smoking is kind-of tolerated and sometimes a drunk person will light a cigarette in a club, but it's really rare and absolutely a non-issue in my experience.
  - tlarkworthy 4y ago
    I live in Berlin and u must have not been out here coz many places, especially clubs, allow smoking indoors.
    - Sebb767 4y ago
      I didn't experience this in Berlin; to be fair, however, I didn't spend much time in Bars there.
  - itsthejb 4y ago
    In Berlin, the inside smoking laws are pretty much never enforced. Some bars have dedicated smoking rooms, but many don’t. As for clubs, you can mostly expect smoking indoors. A lot of people smoke, so you _will_ encounter smokey environments when out and about, especially during the winter

novok 4y ago

People use new york because it's the best america has. When you have the whole world, there are better places.

rufus_foreman 4y ago

>> a journey to the water in New York will take much much longer, involve more walking, and involve dirtier water It's not hard, not far to reach.