4 ms·

This sounds horrible to me. I don't want to share hallways or lobbies or parking lots or pools. When I lived in an apartment someone hit my brand new car. No su

This sounds horrible to me. I don't want to share hallways or lobbies or parking lots or pools. When I lived in an apartment someone hit my brand new car. No such problems at my house. My house has a pool and hot tub. I can use it at 3 am if I want to and I don't have to even think about it. I have family in Europe too. They live in a 4 story townhome in a small German city with their own garage and driveway and front door very similar to American townhomes. It's the middle of town next to a three story American style mall built right into the town center near a castle tourist destination. But it's also so rural there's nothing if you drive even 10 minutes out of town. And there's nothing to do at night. They also own a small piece of land nearby where my grandparents hang out all day and grow food. In essence it's not much different from an American lifestyle just with excellent walkability and a train direct to Berlin or Hamburg

bambax 4y ago
> When I lived in an apartment someone hit my brand new car. The point is that you shouldn't need a car.
- philwelch 4y ago
  You’ll own nothing and be happy.
  - ericmay 4y ago
    You’ll be forced to buy an expensive car, pay for insurance, maintain it, get in car crashes and become maimed, pay for gas, and advocate for politics that require massive amounts of death and destruction to secure your oil supply and you’ll be happy.
    - philwelch 4y ago
      Most people, given the choice, do prefer to own cars.
      - bambax 4y ago
        That's because they didn't pay for the externalities or suffer from them. But that's changing fast. Maybe they'll change their mind.
      - bluGill 4y ago
        For most people a car is the best compromise. There are cost is worth it, but the car is just a tool for getting around. There are a few collectors who own a car for other reasons, but most it is transportation. If they lived someplace where public transit was enough better they wouldn't own a car. Enough better for transit is complex. It is a factor of cost, how nice it is, ability to get places when they want to, traffic, and a few other factors. The denser the city the more likely it is that transit is better.
      - nicolas_t 4y ago
        I've lived in Hong Kong and Kyoto for a long time and most people here do prefer not to have a car. Even though it's relatively affordable in Kyoto, out of 15 people in my company only 2 had a driver's license.
      - ericmay 4y ago
        There a few problems here. The first problem is that we don't need to frame this discussion as "cars vs no cars". I'm not advocating for getting rid of cars because that wouldn't make sense and would be wildly impractical. Instead, what is being advocated is not having car-first infrastructure. The second problem is that this preference, like other "decisions" is done without complete information or a feedback loop besides a monthly payment and gas prices. You don't feel the weight of the maintenance and taxes that go to paying for new highway construction. You don't really experience climate change in a feedback mechanism. You also aren't presenting equivalent options. Would someone prefer to walk over to the neighborhood grocery store to get their groceries or drive 5 miles away to a big-box retailer? I bet if you actually polled people you'd get 90%+ preferring the former. Framing it as "I want a car" versus not having a car presents the person being asked a question which implies taking something away from them, which is bad practice. The third problem is that people prefer to own cars because we intentionally design our cities such that owning a car is the only choice. There's no competition. But you can clearly see that this isn't society's actual preference, because walkable neighborhoods across the country built before cars were prevalent usually have higher property values than the suburbs in the same city. If there was a mechanism such that people could choose neighborhoods they'd vote for or buy medium-density mixed-use neighborhoods where they can have a car with street parking or in the garage behind their house for less frequent activities and then they'd walk to the local grocery store, let their kids walk themselves to school, etc.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
kelnos 4y ago
I'm not a fan of that either; I'd rather live in a townhome or small condo building. But I'd still prefer that apartment in the 20-story building over a single-family home in a neighborhood where I have to drive everywhere.

bambax 4y ago

> When I lived in an apartment someone hit my brand new car. The point is that you shouldn't need a car.

philwelch 4y ago
You’ll own nothing and be happy.
- ericmay 4y ago
  You’ll be forced to buy an expensive car, pay for insurance, maintain it, get in car crashes and become maimed, pay for gas, and advocate for politics that require massive amounts of death and destruction to secure your oil supply and you’ll be happy.
  - philwelch 4y ago
    Most people, given the choice, do prefer to own cars.
    - bambax 4y ago
      That's because they didn't pay for the externalities or suffer from them. But that's changing fast. Maybe they'll change their mind.
    - bluGill 4y ago
      For most people a car is the best compromise. There are cost is worth it, but the car is just a tool for getting around. There are a few collectors who own a car for other reasons, but most it is transportation. If they lived someplace where public transit was enough better they wouldn't own a car. Enough better for transit is complex. It is a factor of cost, how nice it is, ability to get places when they want to, traffic, and a few other factors. The denser the city the more likely it is that transit is better.
    - nicolas_t 4y ago
      I've lived in Hong Kong and Kyoto for a long time and most people here do prefer not to have a car. Even though it's relatively affordable in Kyoto, out of 15 people in my company only 2 had a driver's license.
    - ericmay 4y ago
      There a few problems here. The first problem is that we don't need to frame this discussion as "cars vs no cars". I'm not advocating for getting rid of cars because that wouldn't make sense and would be wildly impractical. Instead, what is being advocated is not having car-first infrastructure. The second problem is that this preference, like other "decisions" is done without complete information or a feedback loop besides a monthly payment and gas prices. You don't feel the weight of the maintenance and taxes that go to paying for new highway construction. You don't really experience climate change in a feedback mechanism. You also aren't presenting equivalent options. Would someone prefer to walk over to the neighborhood grocery store to get their groceries or drive 5 miles away to a big-box retailer? I bet if you actually polled people you'd get 90%+ preferring the former. Framing it as "I want a car" versus not having a car presents the person being asked a question which implies taking something away from them, which is bad practice. The third problem is that people prefer to own cars because we intentionally design our cities such that owning a car is the only choice. There's no competition. But you can clearly see that this isn't society's actual preference, because walkable neighborhoods across the country built before cars were prevalent usually have higher property values than the suburbs in the same city. If there was a mechanism such that people could choose neighborhoods they'd vote for or buy medium-density mixed-use neighborhoods where they can have a car with street parking or in the garage behind their house for less frequent activities and then they'd walk to the local grocery store, let their kids walk themselves to school, etc.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]

kelnos 4y ago

I'm not a fan of that either; I'd rather live in a townhome or small condo building. But I'd still prefer that apartment in the 20-story building over a single-family home in a neighborhood where I have to drive everywhere.