4 ms·

I agree with the first points, but we need to stop lying about the noise issue. No matter how well built a place is, noise is always going to be a potential pro

I agree with the first points, but we need to stop lying about the noise issue. No matter how well built a place is, noise is always going to be a potential problem. People do like opening their windows, especially noisy people. If we want people to accept density, we need social norms and legal enforcement on the noise front, not pretending.

hackerlight 4y ago
Noise doesn't have to be an issue, there are building technologies that can make a room quiet which aren't used because they cost a more money, but it always is an issue in the end because of lax regulation. Both lax regulation in the general environment (e.g., loud motorcycles and leafblowers), and lax regulation in the building code. Regulations are currently in the wrong place -- focused on preventing construction, instead of enabling and encouraging quality construction.
Ekaros 4y ago
Usually many sounds come from street. But then again I take that in these single family housing neighbourhoods in USA there is absolutely no one loud. Kids don't scream at their yards, no one uses loud tools, plays music outside and so on. I wish entire world would be such paradise of quiet.
renewiltord 4y ago
Had a flat in London on the Thames. Beautiful new build. Close my balcony doors and I couldn't hear a thing from the outside. Quiet as a church. Open the balcony doors and the sounds of the river and Gabriel's Wharf will flood in. And that one time there was this crazy guy yelling. Doors closed, nothing. I think US construction is just lower quality in comparison, which is a fair complaint. With only access to inferior manpower without the skill and techniques from the UK, you'll likely end up with the noisy apartment and then you're fucked. So I understand the concern.
- cozzyd 4y ago
  Granted, I live in a vintage office building that was converted to condos, but it has pretty good sound isolation (it kind of would have to since the L runs right by it). The main things I can hear with windows closed are sirens and those assholes with super loud motors that for some reason never get arrested for noise violations.
cozzyd 4y ago
Sure if you open your windows there will be noise, but that's true everywhere no? Dogs barking, roosters, crickets...
- foobiekr 4y ago
  There's a huge difference, to most people, between natural sounds and the noise of other people being other people. It's just not the same and we need to stop pretending it isn't an issue. I lived in an amazingly solid, all-concrete, incredibly sound-isolated complex for awhile. In the bay area, so it's nice to have fresh air and not live like you're in a bunker. And then the neighbor with the parrot moved in next door, and the neighbor with the kids who loved playing CoD late at night with a subwoofer moved in above. In short, I will _never_ share walls again. Never. Enjoy the density.
  - cozzyd 4y ago
    If you can clearly hear adjacent units then that sounds to me like improper sound isolation. Typically condos tend to have much better sound isolation than apartments in the US (apartments will typically cheap out on the party walls).
    - foobiekr 4y ago
      There was nothing wrong with the sound isolation. It was perfect. Until people opened their windows. Which was the entire point of that post. No amount of sound isolation is going to fix this problem.
      - cozzyd 4y ago
        Sorry I misunderstood. I don't normally open my windows since it's often too hot or too cold outside and also air pollution from cars/buses on the street below. Probably in a milder climate open windows would be a bigger problem.

hackerlight 4y ago

Noise doesn't have to be an issue, there are building technologies that can make a room quiet which aren't used because they cost a more money, but it always is an issue in the end because of lax regulation. Both lax regulation in the general environment (e.g., loud motorcycles and leafblowers), and lax regulation in the building code. Regulations are currently in the wrong place -- focused on preventing construction, instead of enabling and encouraging quality construction.

Ekaros 4y ago

Usually many sounds come from street. But then again I take that in these single family housing neighbourhoods in USA there is absolutely no one loud. Kids don't scream at their yards, no one uses loud tools, plays music outside and so on. I wish entire world would be such paradise of quiet.

renewiltord 4y ago

Had a flat in London on the Thames. Beautiful new build. Close my balcony doors and I couldn't hear a thing from the outside. Quiet as a church. Open the balcony doors and the sounds of the river and Gabriel's Wharf will flood in. And that one time there was this crazy guy yelling. Doors closed, nothing. I think US construction is just lower quality in comparison, which is a fair complaint. With only access to inferior manpower without the skill and techniques from the UK, you'll likely end up with the noisy apartment and then you're fucked. So I understand the concern.

cozzyd 4y ago
Granted, I live in a vintage office building that was converted to condos, but it has pretty good sound isolation (it kind of would have to since the L runs right by it). The main things I can hear with windows closed are sirens and those assholes with super loud motors that for some reason never get arrested for noise violations.

cozzyd 4y ago

Sure if you open your windows there will be noise, but that's true everywhere no? Dogs barking, roosters, crickets...

foobiekr 4y ago
There's a huge difference, to most people, between natural sounds and the noise of other people being other people. It's just not the same and we need to stop pretending it isn't an issue. I lived in an amazingly solid, all-concrete, incredibly sound-isolated complex for awhile. In the bay area, so it's nice to have fresh air and not live like you're in a bunker. And then the neighbor with the parrot moved in next door, and the neighbor with the kids who loved playing CoD late at night with a subwoofer moved in above. In short, I will _never_ share walls again. Never. Enjoy the density.
- cozzyd 4y ago
  If you can clearly hear adjacent units then that sounds to me like improper sound isolation. Typically condos tend to have much better sound isolation than apartments in the US (apartments will typically cheap out on the party walls).
  - foobiekr 4y ago
    There was nothing wrong with the sound isolation. It was perfect. Until people opened their windows. Which was the entire point of that post. No amount of sound isolation is going to fix this problem.
    - cozzyd 4y ago
      Sorry I misunderstood. I don't normally open my windows since it's often too hot or too cold outside and also air pollution from cars/buses on the street below. Probably in a milder climate open windows would be a bigger problem.