4 ms·

It's not going to be mixed income. It's going to be segregated incomes living near by each other, both resenting the other. In Las Vegas suburbs you can sometim

It's not going to be mixed income. It's going to be segregated incomes living near by each other, both resenting the other. In Las Vegas suburbs you can sometimes see the various neighborhoods with Drastic obvious cost/value differences right next to each other. The lower cost one is hellish, and the nicer one is basically brought down by the worse one. If you could afford it, you'd never choose a neighborhood next to a bad neighborhood. So why build more of these bad ones near nice areas? Can't we just build more in bad areas? It's supposed to be cheap so why not build in cheaper areas?

SenHeng 4y ago
The problem here in your comment is associating dense neighbourhoods with bad neighbourhoods. The other problem is thinking all cheap neighbourhoods should be bad neighbourhoods.
- namecheapTA 4y ago
  Ok I guess bad is not nice. But they're clearly not as safe nor as nice as the more expensive neighborhoods of the same community. And I wasn't saying they should be this way. I guess I was just going from basic observation and some memorable stats.
- namecheapTA 4y ago
  I was trying to figure out why I equated cheap with bad which you pointed out to me. I think it's because I figured if someone built cheap housing, and it was actually nice and somewhere you wanted to be, it wouldn't stay cheap for very long at all. If someone built and sold condos for 250k in a town that usually sells for 1 million.... Wouldn't the buyer soon sell it for 750k? If it's cheap, it basically has to be much worse than other options or it'll soon become the price of the expensive options.
  - SenHeng 4y ago
    I'm not dimissing your experience which comes from the current situation. But the current situation came about because of intense gentrification and the housing prices rising faster than society could cope over the past few decades.
    - namecheapTA 4y ago
      I don't really get it. Stockton CA is a bad place because housing prices rose too fast? The average house there is now probably 300k. If they were 100k still, Stockton would have less murder and car theft?
- denton-scratch 4y ago
  > bad neighbourhoods I'm a brit, that spent a year living in USA. That term, "bad neighbourhood", is a term that I learned refers to a predominantly black neighbourhood. I was told things like "Don't go past this road junction on foot, that's a bad neighbourhood". The neighbourhood in question looked exactly the neighbourhood I was standing in, but with black people.
  - bluGill 4y ago
    That it is black is not racism, there are real factors that make them bad areas. You are far more likely to be accidentally show in those areas (even though the good neighborhoods may contain as many guns, they are not used in those areas). You are far more likely to be assaulted. Those are also the cheap areas, and black families tend to move there just because they are poor. Of course the gangs in the area thus can recruit young local black kids (not being a member of the local gang can be dangerous). It isn't racism though, it is just reality - one that is very hard to escape for black people. There is racism in the US as well, a lot of the current problems are rooted in the historic racism.
  - namecheapTA 4y ago
    Did you check any crime stats for the neighborhood, or were you expecting to see burglary, rape and murder as you drove by that second? Someone tells you it's bad, and all you notice is the color of people's skin.
    - denton-scratch 4y ago
      > were you expecting to see burglary, rape and murder as you drove by that second? Nope. Actually, I was standing on the street, not driving. This "bad neighbourhood" was 50 yards from where I was standing. If they wanted to rob people, they'd have found better pickings where I was standing than in the "bad neighbourhood". I didn't have a car; we were visiting my sister-in-law. I'm accustomed to walking everywhere, unless I have an inter-city journey. The town was Charlottesville, VA, but I was told much the same when I settled (briefly) in Richmond, VA. > Someone tells you it's bad, and all you notice is the color of people's skin. What I noticed was what's obvious. In a majority-white city, the so-called bad neighbourhood had exclusively black people on the street. And I noticed, for example, that every time I drove to work, there was a car pulled over on the freeway, with two black guys lying face-down, with cops pointing guns at their heads. I never saw this with white guys. My drive to work was just 15 minutes, but I saw this daily. Do they actually do block-by-block crime statistics in these places? Because what I find shocking is that the granularity of this "bad neighbourhood" thing appears to be the block.
UncleEntity 4y ago
That’s pretty much how Phoenix is laid out, good neighborhoods next to not so good neighborhoods with straight up ghettos strewn in for good measure. Just the way things worked out as the city grew.
kelnos 4y ago
> So why build more of these bad ones near nice areas? Can't we just build more in bad areas? It's supposed to be cheap so why not build in cheaper areas? Ah yes, let's make sure to put all the new poors who want to move in with all the existing poors. Can't let them live anywhere else, or they might start getting ideas. Do you really think this plan is equitable?
- namecheapTA 4y ago
  Everyone has equal opportunity I believe. Equal outcome? That's Bs. I'm a hard worker and decently smart. Do I get to own a single family home with a large yard in Malibu?? No? Why not!! That's not equitable is it!
  - skinnymuch 4y ago
    Equity isn’t equal outcome. How does building housing for poor people next to rich people give equal outcome?
    - namecheapTA 4y ago
      What does "building housing for poor people" even mean? I assume you mean building housing so inexpensive that even "poor" people can afford it. I just don't understand how you build housing in Malibu that is so cheap a McDonalds employee can afford it... Yet somehow this McDonald's employee doesn't just sell it to a rich person for 10x next year. If a McDonalds employee can afford a $100k mortgage (can they?), And they somehow get this condo for $100k in Malibu, wouldn't they sell it to someone like me ASAP and cash out? Because I'd buy a condo in Malibu for $300k cash tomorrow, but I'm sure others would bid it up to well above that. How do you make houses so bad that no one bids it up?

SenHeng 4y ago

The problem here in your comment is associating dense neighbourhoods with bad neighbourhoods. The other problem is thinking all cheap neighbourhoods should be bad neighbourhoods.

namecheapTA 4y ago
Ok I guess bad is not nice. But they're clearly not as safe nor as nice as the more expensive neighborhoods of the same community. And I wasn't saying they should be this way. I guess I was just going from basic observation and some memorable stats.
namecheapTA 4y ago
I was trying to figure out why I equated cheap with bad which you pointed out to me. I think it's because I figured if someone built cheap housing, and it was actually nice and somewhere you wanted to be, it wouldn't stay cheap for very long at all. If someone built and sold condos for 250k in a town that usually sells for 1 million.... Wouldn't the buyer soon sell it for 750k? If it's cheap, it basically has to be much worse than other options or it'll soon become the price of the expensive options.
- SenHeng 4y ago
  I'm not dimissing your experience which comes from the current situation. But the current situation came about because of intense gentrification and the housing prices rising faster than society could cope over the past few decades.
  - namecheapTA 4y ago
    I don't really get it. Stockton CA is a bad place because housing prices rose too fast? The average house there is now probably 300k. If they were 100k still, Stockton would have less murder and car theft?
denton-scratch 4y ago
> bad neighbourhoods I'm a brit, that spent a year living in USA. That term, "bad neighbourhood", is a term that I learned refers to a predominantly black neighbourhood. I was told things like "Don't go past this road junction on foot, that's a bad neighbourhood". The neighbourhood in question looked exactly the neighbourhood I was standing in, but with black people.
- bluGill 4y ago
  That it is black is not racism, there are real factors that make them bad areas. You are far more likely to be accidentally show in those areas (even though the good neighborhoods may contain as many guns, they are not used in those areas). You are far more likely to be assaulted. Those are also the cheap areas, and black families tend to move there just because they are poor. Of course the gangs in the area thus can recruit young local black kids (not being a member of the local gang can be dangerous). It isn't racism though, it is just reality - one that is very hard to escape for black people. There is racism in the US as well, a lot of the current problems are rooted in the historic racism.
- namecheapTA 4y ago
  Did you check any crime stats for the neighborhood, or were you expecting to see burglary, rape and murder as you drove by that second? Someone tells you it's bad, and all you notice is the color of people's skin.
  - denton-scratch 4y ago
    > were you expecting to see burglary, rape and murder as you drove by that second? Nope. Actually, I was standing on the street, not driving. This "bad neighbourhood" was 50 yards from where I was standing. If they wanted to rob people, they'd have found better pickings where I was standing than in the "bad neighbourhood". I didn't have a car; we were visiting my sister-in-law. I'm accustomed to walking everywhere, unless I have an inter-city journey. The town was Charlottesville, VA, but I was told much the same when I settled (briefly) in Richmond, VA. > Someone tells you it's bad, and all you notice is the color of people's skin. What I noticed was what's obvious. In a majority-white city, the so-called bad neighbourhood had exclusively black people on the street. And I noticed, for example, that every time I drove to work, there was a car pulled over on the freeway, with two black guys lying face-down, with cops pointing guns at their heads. I never saw this with white guys. My drive to work was just 15 minutes, but I saw this daily. Do they actually do block-by-block crime statistics in these places? Because what I find shocking is that the granularity of this "bad neighbourhood" thing appears to be the block.

UncleEntity 4y ago

That’s pretty much how Phoenix is laid out, good neighborhoods next to not so good neighborhoods with straight up ghettos strewn in for good measure. Just the way things worked out as the city grew.

kelnos 4y ago

> So why build more of these bad ones near nice areas? Can't we just build more in bad areas? It's supposed to be cheap so why not build in cheaper areas? Ah yes, let's make sure to put all the new poors who want to move in with all the existing poors. Can't let them live anywhere else, or they might start getting ideas. Do you really think this plan is equitable?

namecheapTA 4y ago
Everyone has equal opportunity I believe. Equal outcome? That's Bs. I'm a hard worker and decently smart. Do I get to own a single family home with a large yard in Malibu?? No? Why not!! That's not equitable is it!
- skinnymuch 4y ago
  Equity isn’t equal outcome. How does building housing for poor people next to rich people give equal outcome?
  - namecheapTA 4y ago
    What does "building housing for poor people" even mean? I assume you mean building housing so inexpensive that even "poor" people can afford it. I just don't understand how you build housing in Malibu that is so cheap a McDonalds employee can afford it... Yet somehow this McDonald's employee doesn't just sell it to a rich person for 10x next year. If a McDonalds employee can afford a $100k mortgage (can they?), And they somehow get this condo for $100k in Malibu, wouldn't they sell it to someone like me ASAP and cash out? Because I'd buy a condo in Malibu for $300k cash tomorrow, but I'm sure others would bid it up to well above that. How do you make houses so bad that no one bids it up?