4 ms·

I guess one of the goals of a such a program would be for nothing the target believes about their harassment to be correct.

whatshisface 4y ago
Unfortunately, crazy people who believe they are on the receiving end of targeted harassment are more like people who are fixated on the possibility that they might have a deadly illness than they are like people who believe they are Elvis. I think there's a movie on Netflix about how they messed with the guy that leaked/blew the whistle on the internal report on the toxicity of something in cigarettes. I guess if the silk road guy can try to hire an assassin, so can anyone.
- manxman 4y ago
  This phenomenon is real and you are correct. It's also known by those who use targeted harassment because it gives them perfect plausible deniability. Think about it from the side of the guys who stand to gain from targeted harassment. It's not really worth it for harassing people working at a low level in organisations unless they're a real problem. But think about it from the perspective of targeting people with wealth, political/social influence or those with skills. If you can make the target look crazy it becomes easy to get what they have or make them do what you want (eventually everyone breaks)
  - sacrosancty 4y ago
    If the victim is actually sane, they'll be able to collect objective evidence that can be verified by 3rd parties. It's going on persistently, after-all, so there's no shortage of events to record. Even if it's just written notes, others can easily exclude the made-up inferences and look only at the raw observations - if any exist!
    - walterbell 4y ago
      Perhaps an open-source forensics guide for collection and custody of evidence that would be considered substantive?
      - manxman 4y ago
        I think there's a growing need for options in this area generally. The issue is that even indy media sources have become broken in recent years. The Intercept of Poitras and Greenwald isn't the organisation it was when they founded it. Yet unless you are well informed or take the time to research it, the brand carries more weight than the reality. Even with a large body of verifiable evidence, finding the right way to expose a story in the age of information overload and saturation is challenging.
    - Sirened 4y ago
      >they'll be able to collect objective evidence that can be verified by 3rd parties. Really? Do you actually think a random person you grab off the street could, on their own, be able to do all the necessary forensic analysis necessary to detect an implant? Hell, we haven't even managed to get our hands on the NSO implant, we usually only end up with the first few stages of the exploit because the rest gets covered up. Even when we do get these exploit stages, it often takes days or weeks for experienced engineers to tear them apart and really understand what's going on. These sorts of things are absolutely not trivial and I have zero expectation that anyone could so easily drum up evidence proof of compromise on their own.
      - sacrosancty 4y ago
        No. I'm talking about recording what they actually observe. Even if it's "I heard a sound like zzzt at 2:00pm that lasted for 3 minutes" or keeping a log of Geiger counter data. Lots of notes like that would end up revealing some kind of consistent picture. But saying "I'm being targeted by groups of people using radiological weapons" is just making things up. You can't know that much detail.
    - macrolocal 4y ago
      Not if they're so confused that they wind up trying to collect evidence of microchip implants or space lasers!

whatshisface 4y ago

Unfortunately, crazy people who believe they are on the receiving end of targeted harassment are more like people who are fixated on the possibility that they might have a deadly illness than they are like people who believe they are Elvis. I think there's a movie on Netflix about how they messed with the guy that leaked/blew the whistle on the internal report on the toxicity of something in cigarettes. I guess if the silk road guy can try to hire an assassin, so can anyone.

manxman 4y ago
This phenomenon is real and you are correct. It's also known by those who use targeted harassment because it gives them perfect plausible deniability. Think about it from the side of the guys who stand to gain from targeted harassment. It's not really worth it for harassing people working at a low level in organisations unless they're a real problem. But think about it from the perspective of targeting people with wealth, political/social influence or those with skills. If you can make the target look crazy it becomes easy to get what they have or make them do what you want (eventually everyone breaks)
- sacrosancty 4y ago
  If the victim is actually sane, they'll be able to collect objective evidence that can be verified by 3rd parties. It's going on persistently, after-all, so there's no shortage of events to record. Even if it's just written notes, others can easily exclude the made-up inferences and look only at the raw observations - if any exist!
  - walterbell 4y ago
    Perhaps an open-source forensics guide for collection and custody of evidence that would be considered substantive?
    - manxman 4y ago
      I think there's a growing need for options in this area generally. The issue is that even indy media sources have become broken in recent years. The Intercept of Poitras and Greenwald isn't the organisation it was when they founded it. Yet unless you are well informed or take the time to research it, the brand carries more weight than the reality. Even with a large body of verifiable evidence, finding the right way to expose a story in the age of information overload and saturation is challenging.
  - Sirened 4y ago
    >they'll be able to collect objective evidence that can be verified by 3rd parties. Really? Do you actually think a random person you grab off the street could, on their own, be able to do all the necessary forensic analysis necessary to detect an implant? Hell, we haven't even managed to get our hands on the NSO implant, we usually only end up with the first few stages of the exploit because the rest gets covered up. Even when we do get these exploit stages, it often takes days or weeks for experienced engineers to tear them apart and really understand what's going on. These sorts of things are absolutely not trivial and I have zero expectation that anyone could so easily drum up evidence proof of compromise on their own.
    - sacrosancty 4y ago
      No. I'm talking about recording what they actually observe. Even if it's "I heard a sound like zzzt at 2:00pm that lasted for 3 minutes" or keeping a log of Geiger counter data. Lots of notes like that would end up revealing some kind of consistent picture. But saying "I'm being targeted by groups of people using radiological weapons" is just making things up. You can't know that much detail.
  - macrolocal 4y ago
    Not if they're so confused that they wind up trying to collect evidence of microchip implants or space lasers!