6 ms·

Why would anyone want multi-unit housing? Serious question. I understand if you cannot afford a single unit, sure. But why would anyone actually want a multi-u

Why would anyone want multi-unit housing? Serious question. I understand if you cannot afford a single unit, sure. But why would anyone actually want a multi-unit? People are noisy, smell on occasion, etc. if a city is too crowded, find somewhere else. You’ll be better for moving where you can afford. Moving somewhere just to be in the “hot spot” or something is silly. Go move to a single family residential neighborhood and you’ll be far happier. You can have a garden, put a hole in the wall and expand a room, get a dog. Beyond personally never wanting to live that he’ll again; I personally would never want a multi-unit home in my neighborhood. I don’t want the density of people. Don’t need the problems that entails, don’t need lower property value. It makes a worse quality of life, that’s why the value drops. People who want these units want to live in a particular location, but don’t want to pay prices. And the location is more important to them. I get it. That location will be ruined by those homes; at least it will change the dynamics. That’s the unfortunate part.

jdminhbg 4y ago
> I understand if you cannot afford a single unit, sure. But why would anyone actually want a multi-unit? There are definitely circumstances in life where a multiunit is great -- single people early in life trying to meet people and make friends, for example. But even outside of that: Anyone can afford a single unit, it's just a matter of where. If you're the wealthiest of the wealthy, you can afford it basically anywhere. If you're extremely poor, it might be a shack in the middle of nowhere. Everyone else is trading off the variables of price, type of housing, and location.
- lettergram 4y ago
  I know a lot of poor people. None of them ever said “let me get that one bedroom”. They all did the same thing, move somewhere cheap. Live in a one bedroom, and work until they can buy a house. My point is no one wants that one bedroom, except those well off who want to live in the city. Which by definition creating apartment complexes will destroy the aesthetic and overwhelm the city resources and utilities.
cozzyd 4y ago
Is this a serious question? Because the density afforded by multiunit housing allows for urban amenities, walkabiliity and useful public transit. And well-built multifamily won't have noise issues.
- foobiekr 4y ago
  I agree with the first points, but we need to stop lying about the noise issue. No matter how well built a place is, noise is always going to be a potential problem. People do like opening their windows, especially noisy people. If we want people to accept density, we need social norms and legal enforcement on the noise front, not pretending.
  - hackerlight 4y ago
    Noise doesn't have to be an issue, there are building technologies that can make a room quiet which aren't used because they cost a more money, but it always is an issue in the end because of lax regulation. Both lax regulation in the general environment (e.g., loud motorcycles and leafblowers), and lax regulation in the building code. Regulations are currently in the wrong place -- focused on preventing construction, instead of enabling and encouraging quality construction.
  - Ekaros 4y ago
    Usually many sounds come from street. But then again I take that in these single family housing neighbourhoods in USA there is absolutely no one loud. Kids don't scream at their yards, no one uses loud tools, plays music outside and so on. I wish entire world would be such paradise of quiet.
  - renewiltord 4y ago
    Had a flat in London on the Thames. Beautiful new build. Close my balcony doors and I couldn't hear a thing from the outside. Quiet as a church. Open the balcony doors and the sounds of the river and Gabriel's Wharf will flood in. And that one time there was this crazy guy yelling. Doors closed, nothing. I think US construction is just lower quality in comparison, which is a fair complaint. With only access to inferior manpower without the skill and techniques from the UK, you'll likely end up with the noisy apartment and then you're fucked. So I understand the concern.
susodapop 4y ago
There are advantages to multi-unit housing that you have not included in your analysis: - No garden maintenance / snow removal - Dedicated maintenance staff / landlord pays for it - Generally lower intrusion risk - Smaller footprint than most single unit homes: not everyone desires to clean several thousand square feet And the disadvantages of multi unit housing you listed have their analogues in single unit homes: - Neighbours are still loud and smelly - Putting a hole in your wall and fixing it is expensive unless you have the tools + experience to do so yourself. Not everyone enjoys this. - Commuting becomes more onerous the farther out you live For many people there is no living situation without it’s compromises. But for some, single-unit is ideal and for others multi-unit is ideal.
darksaints 4y ago
I like living in multi family housing, and I like living in dense neighborhoods. I don't give a single shit if you don't like it, and I don't have to justify it to you.
- kory 4y ago
  Surely then you can agree to leave his neighborhood alone and note force it to become like yours?
  - darksaints 4y ago
    I can agree to leave his property alone. He doesn't own his neighborhood, though. And anybody should be able to build multifamily housing on their own fucking property. Even if you don't like it. And if you really don't want it to happen, then buy the whole neighborhood. Nobody will force you to put apartments on your own property.
    - kory 4y ago
      Right, so you do want to force his neighborhood to change its rules so it becomes like yours. “Preference for me but not for thee.” His neighborhood clearly doesn’t affect yours. Why is it so hard to leave it alone? I’m sure Marc doesn’t advocate for your neighborhood to change.
      - darksaints 4y ago
        It does affect mine. High housing prices have ripple effects across entire regions. I know people that spend 4 hours of their lives in a car every day because of those ripple effects. Again: Marc does not own his neighborhood. He owns his house. He can do whatever he wants with his house, but the moment you grant him control over the neighborhood, you grant him rights over everybody else's property.
        kory 4y ago
        But his neighborhood owns his neighborhood, and they vote to continue the multifamily zoning ban. Clearly if this was only Marc’s preference, it wouldn’t be law. Surely the solution is to build more places for people to be employed rather than overcrowding existing ones and forcing people to commute from far away. COVID showed us the office centric commuter world is not necessary. I understand some people must be onsite, but still, drastic commute reductions and spreading out of people is a good thing.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
EddySchauHai 4y ago
Single unit zoning in Atherton means at least a one acre lot. Have you ever heard of semi-detached housing? That’d count as multi-unit zoning here. Half an acre lot with a good sized house seems pretty nice to me :)
exogeny 4y ago
For the tenth time in this thread, even if one agrees with that point of view, the issue isn't that Andreessen holds that view, it's that he's gone on record many, many times espousing the exact opposite of it. It's insanely hypocritical, and points to him saying one thing in public to gain the kudos of like-minded people while in private being something completely different.
fshbbdssbbgdd 4y ago
I like other people.
astrange 4y ago
People are not noisy. Cars, nearby freeways, and leafblowers are noisy, and those are elements of suburbia and single family houses. Multi-unit housing is famously popular with extremely rich people as long as they're the ones living in it - a lot of them like NYC.
nova22033 4y ago
You’ll be better for moving where you can afford. Go move to a single family residential neighborhood and you’ll be far happier. A lot of let them eat cake in this comment..Have you hear of "people who work at the restaurants you frequent"? They would tremendously benefit by living near where they work.

jdminhbg 4y ago

> I understand if you cannot afford a single unit, sure. But why would anyone actually want a multi-unit? There are definitely circumstances in life where a multiunit is great -- single people early in life trying to meet people and make friends, for example. But even outside of that: Anyone can afford a single unit, it's just a matter of where. If you're the wealthiest of the wealthy, you can afford it basically anywhere. If you're extremely poor, it might be a shack in the middle of nowhere. Everyone else is trading off the variables of price, type of housing, and location.

lettergram 4y ago
I know a lot of poor people. None of them ever said “let me get that one bedroom”. They all did the same thing, move somewhere cheap. Live in a one bedroom, and work until they can buy a house. My point is no one wants that one bedroom, except those well off who want to live in the city. Which by definition creating apartment complexes will destroy the aesthetic and overwhelm the city resources and utilities.

cozzyd 4y ago

Is this a serious question? Because the density afforded by multiunit housing allows for urban amenities, walkabiliity and useful public transit. And well-built multifamily won't have noise issues.

foobiekr 4y ago
I agree with the first points, but we need to stop lying about the noise issue. No matter how well built a place is, noise is always going to be a potential problem. People do like opening their windows, especially noisy people. If we want people to accept density, we need social norms and legal enforcement on the noise front, not pretending.
- hackerlight 4y ago
  Noise doesn't have to be an issue, there are building technologies that can make a room quiet which aren't used because they cost a more money, but it always is an issue in the end because of lax regulation. Both lax regulation in the general environment (e.g., loud motorcycles and leafblowers), and lax regulation in the building code. Regulations are currently in the wrong place -- focused on preventing construction, instead of enabling and encouraging quality construction.
- Ekaros 4y ago
  Usually many sounds come from street. But then again I take that in these single family housing neighbourhoods in USA there is absolutely no one loud. Kids don't scream at their yards, no one uses loud tools, plays music outside and so on. I wish entire world would be such paradise of quiet.
- renewiltord 4y ago
  Had a flat in London on the Thames. Beautiful new build. Close my balcony doors and I couldn't hear a thing from the outside. Quiet as a church. Open the balcony doors and the sounds of the river and Gabriel's Wharf will flood in. And that one time there was this crazy guy yelling. Doors closed, nothing. I think US construction is just lower quality in comparison, which is a fair complaint. With only access to inferior manpower without the skill and techniques from the UK, you'll likely end up with the noisy apartment and then you're fucked. So I understand the concern.

susodapop 4y ago

There are advantages to multi-unit housing that you have not included in your analysis: - No garden maintenance / snow removal - Dedicated maintenance staff / landlord pays for it - Generally lower intrusion risk - Smaller footprint than most single unit homes: not everyone desires to clean several thousand square feet And the disadvantages of multi unit housing you listed have their analogues in single unit homes: - Neighbours are still loud and smelly - Putting a hole in your wall and fixing it is expensive unless you have the tools + experience to do so yourself. Not everyone enjoys this. - Commuting becomes more onerous the farther out you live For many people there is no living situation without it’s compromises. But for some, single-unit is ideal and for others multi-unit is ideal.

darksaints 4y ago

I like living in multi family housing, and I like living in dense neighborhoods. I don't give a single shit if you don't like it, and I don't have to justify it to you.

kory 4y ago
Surely then you can agree to leave his neighborhood alone and note force it to become like yours?
- darksaints 4y ago
  I can agree to leave his property alone. He doesn't own his neighborhood, though. And anybody should be able to build multifamily housing on their own fucking property. Even if you don't like it. And if you really don't want it to happen, then buy the whole neighborhood. Nobody will force you to put apartments on your own property.
  - kory 4y ago
    Right, so you do want to force his neighborhood to change its rules so it becomes like yours. “Preference for me but not for thee.” His neighborhood clearly doesn’t affect yours. Why is it so hard to leave it alone? I’m sure Marc doesn’t advocate for your neighborhood to change.
    - darksaints 4y ago
      It does affect mine. High housing prices have ripple effects across entire regions. I know people that spend 4 hours of their lives in a car every day because of those ripple effects. Again: Marc does not own his neighborhood. He owns his house. He can do whatever he wants with his house, but the moment you grant him control over the neighborhood, you grant him rights over everybody else's property.
      - kory 4y ago
        But his neighborhood owns his neighborhood, and they vote to continue the multifamily zoning ban. Clearly if this was only Marc’s preference, it wouldn’t be law. Surely the solution is to build more places for people to be employed rather than overcrowding existing ones and forcing people to commute from far away. COVID showed us the office centric commuter world is not necessary. I understand some people must be onsite, but still, drastic commute reductions and spreading out of people is a good thing.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

EddySchauHai 4y ago

Single unit zoning in Atherton means at least a one acre lot. Have you ever heard of semi-detached housing? That’d count as multi-unit zoning here. Half an acre lot with a good sized house seems pretty nice to me :)

exogeny 4y ago

For the tenth time in this thread, even if one agrees with that point of view, the issue isn't that Andreessen holds that view, it's that he's gone on record many, many times espousing the exact opposite of it. It's insanely hypocritical, and points to him saying one thing in public to gain the kudos of like-minded people while in private being something completely different.

fshbbdssbbgdd 4y ago

I like other people.

astrange 4y ago

People are not noisy. Cars, nearby freeways, and leafblowers are noisy, and those are elements of suburbia and single family houses. Multi-unit housing is famously popular with extremely rich people as long as they're the ones living in it - a lot of them like NYC.

nova22033 4y ago

You’ll be better for moving where you can afford. Go move to a single family residential neighborhood and you’ll be far happier. A lot of let them eat cake in this comment..Have you hear of "people who work at the restaurants you frequent"? They would tremendously benefit by living near where they work.