4 ms·

Communities are allowed to decide how they are composed.

tptacek 4y ago
This is obviously not true in a variety of ways, and it inevitably won't be true in the way we're talking about here either, because the status quo doesn't work: it guarantees that every viable suburb is overwhelmingly SFZ, almost mathematically.
JoshTko 4y ago
Why should they if their preferences negatively impacts everyone else?
alexrtan 4y ago
In the same way San Francisco allows ice cream shops (or any business) to object to new competitors in their area, yes many “communities” also write rules that monopolize land in order to keep their property values high. See: https://www.sfchronicle.com/local/heatherknight/article/S-F-ice-cream-shop-hopeful-sees-dreams-melted-by-16116082.php https://www.sfchronicle.com/local/heatherknight/article/S-F-...
jdminhbg 4y ago
No, they obviously are not allowed to decide that at all, unless you think communities can decide that no Asians may buy houses within their borders.
- rootusrootus 4y ago
  That's disingenuous, race is a protected class. High density housing isn't. Sometimes we seem to like the idea of democracy, sometimes we don't. That's the tension here.
  - tptacek 4y ago
    High density housing isn't protected because we choose not to protect it. But that's changing, thankfully.
  - jdminhbg 4y ago
    How is it disingenuous? OP asserted that communities are "allowed to decide how they are composed," and they obviously are not. Which decisions we allow communities to make is the entire question.
    - rootusrootus 4y ago
      Protected classes are already protected, so it is absolutely disingenuous to try and suggest that if we allow communities to have a say in their own composition we would have to allow them to discriminate based on race.
astrange 4y ago
They aren't allowed to decide that in other countries, just here, and almost everything that happened as a result of that was bad. Been to Japan? France? Pretty nice places.
- proxyon 4y ago
  Aren't those some of the most expensive countries on Earth for housing?
  - astrange 4y ago
    No, housing isn't expensive in Japan, certainly nowhere near how bad it is in US cities. Housing prices are more or less flat in Tokyo over decades, even, because they constantly build more of it. (It's cheap in the rest of the country, but that doesn't mean much because nobody wants to live there and there aren't jobs.) Not saying it's great; Japanese wages are too low and their landlords are abusive (moving is expensive, you have to pay a lot of "key money", and they're free to discriminate against foreigners). But the housing crisis is an Anglo problem - it's bad in the US/UK/Canada/Australia. Not sure about France specifically, I was just saying Paris is a nice city.
closeparen 4y ago
The state of California is a community. The United States is a community.
renewiltord 4y ago
Sadly, no. If you're a community of people who want to develop your land in Atherton you won't be allowed to because a whole bunch of others (including Andreessen) want to stop you.

This is obviously not true in a variety of ways, and it inevitably won't be true in the way we're talking about here either, because the status quo doesn't work: it guarantees that every viable suburb is overwhelmingly SFZ, almost mathematically.

JoshTko 4y ago

Why should they if their preferences negatively impacts everyone else?

alexrtan 4y ago

In the same way San Francisco allows ice cream shops (or any business) to object to new competitors in their area, yes many “communities” also write rules that monopolize land in order to keep their property values high. See: https://www.sfchronicle.com/local/heatherknight/article/S-F-ice-cream-shop-hopeful-sees-dreams-melted-by-16116082.php https://www.sfchronicle.com/local/heatherknight/article/S-F-...

jdminhbg 4y ago

No, they obviously are not allowed to decide that at all, unless you think communities can decide that no Asians may buy houses within their borders.

rootusrootus 4y ago
That's disingenuous, race is a protected class. High density housing isn't. Sometimes we seem to like the idea of democracy, sometimes we don't. That's the tension here.
- tptacek 4y ago
  High density housing isn't protected because we choose not to protect it. But that's changing, thankfully.
- jdminhbg 4y ago
  How is it disingenuous? OP asserted that communities are "allowed to decide how they are composed," and they obviously are not. Which decisions we allow communities to make is the entire question.
  - rootusrootus 4y ago
    Protected classes are already protected, so it is absolutely disingenuous to try and suggest that if we allow communities to have a say in their own composition we would have to allow them to discriminate based on race.

astrange 4y ago

They aren't allowed to decide that in other countries, just here, and almost everything that happened as a result of that was bad. Been to Japan? France? Pretty nice places.

proxyon 4y ago
Aren't those some of the most expensive countries on Earth for housing?
- astrange 4y ago
  No, housing isn't expensive in Japan, certainly nowhere near how bad it is in US cities. Housing prices are more or less flat in Tokyo over decades, even, because they constantly build more of it. (It's cheap in the rest of the country, but that doesn't mean much because nobody wants to live there and there aren't jobs.) Not saying it's great; Japanese wages are too low and their landlords are abusive (moving is expensive, you have to pay a lot of "key money", and they're free to discriminate against foreigners). But the housing crisis is an Anglo problem - it's bad in the US/UK/Canada/Australia. Not sure about France specifically, I was just saying Paris is a nice city.

closeparen 4y ago

The state of California is a community. The United States is a community.

renewiltord 4y ago

Sadly, no. If you're a community of people who want to develop your land in Atherton you won't be allowed to because a whole bunch of others (including Andreessen) want to stop you.