4 ms·

Less enforcement, more cellphone use, more unlicensed drivers.

by jker 4y ago

giantg2 4y ago
I'm actually seeing more enforcement in my area. Although I hear some cities are reducing/banning some traffic enforcement.
- AuthorizedCust 4y ago
  That’s good. Traffic enforcement doesn’t work like people think it does. It doesn’t always have a protective effect. When it does, the effect fades rapidly as time and distance increases from the enforcement. Getting rid of traffic enforcement allows more productive uses of law enforcement. What makes roads safer is better engineering, better technology, and education. I did my dissertation on this. I was surprised at the amount of tautological reasoning when I reviewed literature: traffic enforcement good because traffic enforcement, or speeding bad because speeding. No, something’s bad when it causes harm, and something’s good when it has a net benefit, and the published traffic-safety research focused on laws and enforcement is too often shoddy.
  - kube-system 4y ago
    My city has rarely enforced traffic laws for years. It’s not too much of an issue while driving, because everyone is comfortably cruising at 10-20mph over, and the roads can reasonably handle that. But it’s a big issue in places with pedestrians because people use the same “always go 15mph over” rule even on 25mph roads in residential neighborhoods.
  - giantg2 4y ago
    "What makes roads safer is better engineering, better technology, and education." In my mind, education is by far the biggest issue today. Most people have no clue about vehicle dynamics, or they think bad stuff only happens to other people. Like you said, speed itself isn't necessarily bad. But people speeding around a turn have near zero chance at avoiding a bad outcome if there's some obstacle in the road - they've never tried to slam the brakes on while turning, and/or they think there couldn't possibly be a disabled car, a person, a deer, etc around that blind turn. Technology has certainly helped improve survival. I think it is helping to prevent some accidents to too. I think we still need some refinement on some of the newer tech and/or better education on how to use it. I think sometimes people rely on the tech too much, like autopilot. I think many people aren't fully ready to take over if autopilot has an issue. I had two friends using autopilot tell me it slammed on their brakes at an overpass shadow. Now, they didn't go into detail about the time to recovery, but I'm guessing for at least some people it's significant if they aren't paying attention because they trust the system too much. As for engineering, there's probably a lot that could be done. I haven't seen many changes to road design beyond adding stop signs, lights, textured pavement on turns, etc. I'm guessing it's cost prohibitive, similar to how educational changes are socially prohibitive.
theonemind 4y ago
Licensing to drive seems like a scam, but a minor outpost on the scheme of scams great car-culture scams of car culture itself (the crime of jaywalking, pedestrian hostile roads, towns, and cities, suburban sprawl, all on top of the ridiculous cost of cars themselves, SUVs (cover a basic truck chassis and mark it up), SUVs classified as light trucks to avoid emissions standards...and on, and on, and on.)
- gruez 4y ago
  >Licensing to drive seems like a scam How so? Don't you want to see some competency exhibited by people before they drive[1]? [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZITP93pqtdQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZITP93pqtdQ

Less enforcement, more cellphone use, more unlicensed drivers.

by jker 4y ago

Less enforcement, more cellphone use, more unlicensed drivers.

I'm actually seeing more enforcement in my area. Although I hear some cities are reducing/banning some traffic enforcement.

AuthorizedCust 4y ago
That’s good. Traffic enforcement doesn’t work like people think it does. It doesn’t always have a protective effect. When it does, the effect fades rapidly as time and distance increases from the enforcement. Getting rid of traffic enforcement allows more productive uses of law enforcement. What makes roads safer is better engineering, better technology, and education. I did my dissertation on this. I was surprised at the amount of tautological reasoning when I reviewed literature: traffic enforcement good because traffic enforcement, or speeding bad because speeding. No, something’s bad when it causes harm, and something’s good when it has a net benefit, and the published traffic-safety research focused on laws and enforcement is too often shoddy.
- kube-system 4y ago
  My city has rarely enforced traffic laws for years. It’s not too much of an issue while driving, because everyone is comfortably cruising at 10-20mph over, and the roads can reasonably handle that. But it’s a big issue in places with pedestrians because people use the same “always go 15mph over” rule even on 25mph roads in residential neighborhoods.
- giantg2 4y ago
  "What makes roads safer is better engineering, better technology, and education." In my mind, education is by far the biggest issue today. Most people have no clue about vehicle dynamics, or they think bad stuff only happens to other people. Like you said, speed itself isn't necessarily bad. But people speeding around a turn have near zero chance at avoiding a bad outcome if there's some obstacle in the road - they've never tried to slam the brakes on while turning, and/or they think there couldn't possibly be a disabled car, a person, a deer, etc around that blind turn. Technology has certainly helped improve survival. I think it is helping to prevent some accidents to too. I think we still need some refinement on some of the newer tech and/or better education on how to use it. I think sometimes people rely on the tech too much, like autopilot. I think many people aren't fully ready to take over if autopilot has an issue. I had two friends using autopilot tell me it slammed on their brakes at an overpass shadow. Now, they didn't go into detail about the time to recovery, but I'm guessing for at least some people it's significant if they aren't paying attention because they trust the system too much. As for engineering, there's probably a lot that could be done. I haven't seen many changes to road design beyond adding stop signs, lights, textured pavement on turns, etc. I'm guessing it's cost prohibitive, similar to how educational changes are socially prohibitive.

theonemind 4y ago

Licensing to drive seems like a scam, but a minor outpost on the scheme of scams great car-culture scams of car culture itself (the crime of jaywalking, pedestrian hostile roads, towns, and cities, suburban sprawl, all on top of the ridiculous cost of cars themselves, SUVs (cover a basic truck chassis and mark it up), SUVs classified as light trucks to avoid emissions standards...and on, and on, and on.)

gruez 4y ago
>Licensing to drive seems like a scam How so? Don't you want to see some competency exhibited by people before they drive[1]? [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZITP93pqtdQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZITP93pqtdQ