4 ms·

why don't they just build their own payment processor :^)

commandlinefan 4y ago
Ironically, this move on the part of the payment processors will likely lead to adoption of alternative methods of payment for these sites... which will make it even harder to track down the truly illegal stuff.
sandworm101 4y ago
That's how we got bitcoin. Wikileaks was dropped by Visa and other payment providers. Everyone then looked for an unblockable payment system, which moved bitcoin from a niche tool to the "cool" form of payment.
- carrotcarrot 4y ago
  And it terrified the federal government.
DIARRHEA_xd 4y ago
salawat 4y ago
By definition, if you don't do what VISA is doing, the regulatory state will declare you an illegal payment processor. Like it or not, part of the baggage of doing that service is being an extension of the long arm of the law. So "rolling your own" minus the regulatory baggage you don't like, isn't per se "making your own payment processor", but something else. Bit of a Catch-22, but how it works. Everyone just tends to leave the quiet part unsaid.
- joyfylbanana 4y ago
  Pornhub is committing the crime here. Visa was just processing payments here - and isn't any more, since they stopped it. Why isn't everyone talking about pornhub and demanding them to ban that? Pornhub essentially is already their own payment processor, as it looks like they are processing cryptocurrency payments from the customers.
  - HeyItsMatt 4y ago
    The state is saying Visa is committing the crime. The states media cheerleaders are squawking it to all that will listen. If Visa loses, payment processors have little choice but to remove processing from sites that allow user generated content, including Reddit. They are legally responsible for all under-18 content, and as "Big Evil Corporations" they have no support from anyone in the community that matters. The EU and UK is even worse in this regard, so no anonymous commercial social networks will ever be created again.
wollsmoth 4y ago
I just don't know what that would look like. If they try to take VISA's place, banks might block transfers to them making it impossible for people to pay their tab. They could try switching to crypto but the value of those aren't really stable and somewhat risky in that sense. Onramps like Coinbase have to turn in or block users who are caught using the service to buy drugs or whatever and I don't see why they wouldn't block accounts known to be buying porn or monero too.
- ravenstine 4y ago
  If the only choice becomes to either make money or not, crypto may be the answer. Yeah, many creators and pr0n companies will tone down their content. But we all know that consumption of pr0n doesn't lead to more vanilla tastes. The more "deviant" acts will find ways to make revenue outside the mainstream and then all it will take is a critical mass for some digital currency to mean something.
  - wollsmoth 4y ago
    Sure, but what I'm saying is that for most people, they'll need to buy the crypto with USD. Any time you're interacting with the regular banking system, it's possible to ban accounts who are buying illegal, or even just unseemly content. The only way really around it is if people start buying crypto with cash irl. This is a lot of friction for people. It may simply be easier to buy professional content from studios that only work with legal performers.
- 0xbadcafebee 4y ago
  We need a federal law that indemnifies them from lawsuits as long as they drop a client after they have been convicted of a crime. That puts the onus on the plaintiff to prove that a customer has done wrong, and gives the bank/payment processor enough notice to remove that customer, rather than suing the bank/payment processor because someone might have done something wrong.
  - wollsmoth 4y ago
toast0 4y ago
I would call Visa a card network here. Sure, the card network processes payments, but there's other entities called payment processors. The whole stack includes the merchant, the payment processor (think CyberCash, Authorize.net, PayPal, Stripe, Verifone, NCR, etc), the merchant bank, the card network, the issuing bank, and the customer. If the card network won't deal with you, you've got to build your own card network and issue cards or convince customer banks to issue cards, and convince processors to process them and merchants to accept them etc. I don't know how many adverisers PH has, it might be easier to just ask them to write checks.

Ironically, this move on the part of the payment processors will likely lead to adoption of alternative methods of payment for these sites... which will make it even harder to track down the truly illegal stuff.

sandworm101 4y ago

That's how we got bitcoin. Wikileaks was dropped by Visa and other payment providers. Everyone then looked for an unblockable payment system, which moved bitcoin from a niche tool to the "cool" form of payment.

carrotcarrot 4y ago
And it terrified the federal government.

DIARRHEA_xd 4y ago

salawat 4y ago

By definition, if you don't do what VISA is doing, the regulatory state will declare you an illegal payment processor. Like it or not, part of the baggage of doing that service is being an extension of the long arm of the law. So "rolling your own" minus the regulatory baggage you don't like, isn't per se "making your own payment processor", but something else. Bit of a Catch-22, but how it works. Everyone just tends to leave the quiet part unsaid.

joyfylbanana 4y ago
Pornhub is committing the crime here. Visa was just processing payments here - and isn't any more, since they stopped it. Why isn't everyone talking about pornhub and demanding them to ban that? Pornhub essentially is already their own payment processor, as it looks like they are processing cryptocurrency payments from the customers.
- HeyItsMatt 4y ago
  The state is saying Visa is committing the crime. The states media cheerleaders are squawking it to all that will listen. If Visa loses, payment processors have little choice but to remove processing from sites that allow user generated content, including Reddit. They are legally responsible for all under-18 content, and as "Big Evil Corporations" they have no support from anyone in the community that matters. The EU and UK is even worse in this regard, so no anonymous commercial social networks will ever be created again.

wollsmoth 4y ago

I just don't know what that would look like. If they try to take VISA's place, banks might block transfers to them making it impossible for people to pay their tab. They could try switching to crypto but the value of those aren't really stable and somewhat risky in that sense. Onramps like Coinbase have to turn in or block users who are caught using the service to buy drugs or whatever and I don't see why they wouldn't block accounts known to be buying porn or monero too.

ravenstine 4y ago
If the only choice becomes to either make money or not, crypto may be the answer. Yeah, many creators and pr0n companies will tone down their content. But we all know that consumption of pr0n doesn't lead to more vanilla tastes. The more "deviant" acts will find ways to make revenue outside the mainstream and then all it will take is a critical mass for some digital currency to mean something.
- wollsmoth 4y ago
  Sure, but what I'm saying is that for most people, they'll need to buy the crypto with USD. Any time you're interacting with the regular banking system, it's possible to ban accounts who are buying illegal, or even just unseemly content. The only way really around it is if people start buying crypto with cash irl. This is a lot of friction for people. It may simply be easier to buy professional content from studios that only work with legal performers.
0xbadcafebee 4y ago
We need a federal law that indemnifies them from lawsuits as long as they drop a client after they have been convicted of a crime. That puts the onus on the plaintiff to prove that a customer has done wrong, and gives the bank/payment processor enough notice to remove that customer, rather than suing the bank/payment processor because someone might have done something wrong.
- wollsmoth 4y ago

toast0 4y ago

I would call Visa a card network here. Sure, the card network processes payments, but there's other entities called payment processors. The whole stack includes the merchant, the payment processor (think CyberCash, Authorize.net, PayPal, Stripe, Verifone, NCR, etc), the merchant bank, the card network, the issuing bank, and the customer. If the card network won't deal with you, you've got to build your own card network and issue cards or convince customer banks to issue cards, and convince processors to process them and merchants to accept them etc. I don't know how many adverisers PH has, it might be easier to just ask them to write checks.