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> It would seem that the biggest contributors to climate change and pollution are developing nations that use carbon based energy (ie coal plants in China, Russ

> It would seem that the biggest contributors to climate change and pollution are developing nations that use carbon based energy (ie coal plants in China, Russia, India, etc). First, this is true, but also misleading. https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/EN.ATM.CO2E.PC?most_recent_value_desc=true https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/EN.ATM.CO2E.PC?most_rec... China is not even close to a top polluter per capita, while Canada and US are top there. That means China sustains a larger population with a comparatively smaller impact. Not looking at this metric per capita shows the implicit bias of valuing some citizens needs more than others, and refusal to accept this as a “my” problem but rather “their” problem, which is a source of east-west / north-south tension. Second, in the particular example of China, the pollution is caused by offshoring manufacturing of goods that will be consumed by the top polluters per capita themselves. If we factored in the footprint of this consumption, instead of accounting it all on China’s budget, it would make the numbers even worse for developed nations. We’re are going head first into a environmental crisis, and a severe reduction in consumption, which should be a top priority, is not considered at all. It’s a taboo topic, developed nations citizens will not accept a reduction in living standards, and the whole modern economy depends on increasing consumption and externalization of environmental costs.

tomcam 4y ago
> China is not even close to a top polluter per capita, while Canada and US are top there. That means China sustains a larger population with a comparatively smaller impact. To anyone reasonably familiar with China, this feels like either propaganda or extreme naivete. First off that number is probably based on official stats, and those were probably based on a sample consisting of a model village or two. Second, the official pollution stats for China have no more credibility than US inflation statistics from any area (Nixon, Carter, Biden, etc.). And finally, just ask anyone in the provinces where industrial waste is generated assuming you didn't figure it out an hour before your train arrived. They'll give you a very different that sheds a light on your "comparatively smaller impact" notion. Source: Investor in China, most family is in China, knowledge of internal politics from staff
- Sir_Son_Son 4y ago
  the ole if i don't like the data then they're liars do you have some better methodology to point to? https://www.climatewatchdata.org/about/faq/ghg https://www.climatewatchdata.org/about/faq/ghg
- hcarvalhoalves 4y ago
  Logically, China can be the largest polluter in absolute numbers while still not even above Canada, US, Japan, Germany on pollution per capita, considering the massive population. You don't need to put the data integrity in check over this fact, even though you only provided anecdotal evidence instead of numbers. But ok, let's ignore China. We don't need to focus on China to support the argument that blaming pollution on developing nations is disingenuous. https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/EN.ATM.CO2E.PC?locations=US-DE-JP-CA-ES-FR-AU-BR-IN-PH-MX&most_recent_value_desc=true https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/EN.ATM.CO2E.PC?location... Pollution per capita paints a different picture from the common narrative: there's still an order of magnitude difference between so called developed nations and others, and even between developed nations the gap is large – the avg. US citizen still pollutes 3x more than a Spanish citizen. Supporting the narrative that developing nations are polluting the world, while simultaneously not rethinking your consumption habits is a double-standard.
- s1artibartfast 4y ago
  In your opinion do people in China have the same lifestyle and consumption as people in the US?
  - tomcam 4y ago
    Not even close, on average
s1artibartfast 4y ago
>First, this is true, but also misleading I dont even think it is true if you ignore population. If you add up the developed and developing countries, I think the developed countries still emit more.
deleted 4y ago
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tomcam 4y ago

> China is not even close to a top polluter per capita, while Canada and US are top there. That means China sustains a larger population with a comparatively smaller impact. To anyone reasonably familiar with China, this feels like either propaganda or extreme naivete. First off that number is probably based on official stats, and those were probably based on a sample consisting of a model village or two. Second, the official pollution stats for China have no more credibility than US inflation statistics from any area (Nixon, Carter, Biden, etc.). And finally, just ask anyone in the provinces where industrial waste is generated assuming you didn't figure it out an hour before your train arrived. They'll give you a very different that sheds a light on your "comparatively smaller impact" notion. Source: Investor in China, most family is in China, knowledge of internal politics from staff

Sir_Son_Son 4y ago
the ole if i don't like the data then they're liars do you have some better methodology to point to? https://www.climatewatchdata.org/about/faq/ghg https://www.climatewatchdata.org/about/faq/ghg
hcarvalhoalves 4y ago
Logically, China can be the largest polluter in absolute numbers while still not even above Canada, US, Japan, Germany on pollution per capita, considering the massive population. You don't need to put the data integrity in check over this fact, even though you only provided anecdotal evidence instead of numbers. But ok, let's ignore China. We don't need to focus on China to support the argument that blaming pollution on developing nations is disingenuous. https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/EN.ATM.CO2E.PC?locations=US-DE-JP-CA-ES-FR-AU-BR-IN-PH-MX&most_recent_value_desc=true https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/EN.ATM.CO2E.PC?location... Pollution per capita paints a different picture from the common narrative: there's still an order of magnitude difference between so called developed nations and others, and even between developed nations the gap is large – the avg. US citizen still pollutes 3x more than a Spanish citizen. Supporting the narrative that developing nations are polluting the world, while simultaneously not rethinking your consumption habits is a double-standard.
s1artibartfast 4y ago
In your opinion do people in China have the same lifestyle and consumption as people in the US?
- tomcam 4y ago
  Not even close, on average

s1artibartfast 4y ago

>First, this is true, but also misleading I dont even think it is true if you ignore population. If you add up the developed and developing countries, I think the developed countries still emit more.

deleted 4y ago

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