4 ms·

This is a common talking point specially in America. On the other side in India, the people tend to believe that USA has done some of the worst damage to the pl

by Bhilai 4y ago

This is a common talking point specially in America. On the other side in India, the people tend to believe that USA has done some of the worst damage to the planet to actually become 'developed' and USA is still one of the worst polluters and carbon emitters. People in India/China also tend to believe that USA/UK tend to outsource a lot of industrial manufacturing to India and China and this adds to the carbon emissions of these countries. There is also another aspect which is these two countries are the some of the most densely populated areas and the per capita emissions for countries like America are far egregious. There is also data that shows American oil and gas companies (combined) have historically added more CO2 than other country. So yeah, there are arguments to be made from all sides. I am not in anyway trying to say that India/China should not do their part but American argument for not doing their part is mostly a political talking point. Some more context and analysis here - https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/oureconomy/cop26-tackling-climate-breakdown-and-delivering-economic-justice-must-go-hand-in-hand/ https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/oureconomy/cop26-tackling-c...

em-bee 4y ago
but if the primary contribution to pollution is outsourcing, then doing their part means either less outsourcing or helping the countries that are being outsourced to. even if the USA is responsible for indias pollution, at the end of the day it is still india that needs to reduce their pollution. EDIT: people seem to misunderstand what i am trying to say. i am not saying that the USA does not pollute. nor am i claiming that india pollutes more than the USA. all i am saying is that pollution that happens in india needs to be stopped in india, and pollution that happens in the USA needs to be stopped in the USA. the question is not who is responsible, the question is, who is in the position to implement a change. the USA can reduce their own pollution, but they can't stop pollution in india without indias cooperation. at best they can stop investments that cause pollution, and make other investments that help india reduce pollution. or they can stop importing products whose creation increases pollution. but either way india needs to contribute to that effort by making laws that enable a reduction of pollution in their country. the USA can't do that for them.
- Ekaros 4y ago
  Do they? If their per capita pollution is fraction of USA. Wouldn't that mean that to be equal and fair they have quite a lot of room to increase their pollution. And USA should be responsible of actually going far negative at any cost to it's population.
  - em-bee 4y ago
    of course. i am only addressing the argument that pollution through outsourcing should be the problem of the country doing the outsourcing, and not the country doing the outsourced work. sure, the outsourcing country is to blame, but the effort to reduce the pollution still needs to be done in the country where the outsourced work is done and the pollution happens.
    - limpbizkitfan 4y ago
      The whole issue in this is people think China and Indian actors are maliciously polluting when they are usually relying on foreign investment from companies that ARE acting maliciously and evading the US to skirt climate regulations and other accountability issues. US/UK/“the west” companies often were the prime movers in building cheap coal power plants to provide electricity to whatever business they outsourced. Just because someone doesn’t look like you doesn’t mean they are evil, or different in mindset or situation.
      - em-bee 4y ago
        ok, fair point, though that is the first time i hear that argument (that's on me of course). i don't believe that any country is maliciously polluting. and it is still the country where the pollution happens that is in the best position to force those polluters to reduce their emmisions. however, you just made me realize that there is something that outsourcing countries possibly can do too. namely, i believe they can influence or even stop investments from their country that cause pollution elsewhere.

by Bhilai 4y ago

em-bee 4y ago

but if the primary contribution to pollution is outsourcing, then doing their part means either less outsourcing or helping the countries that are being outsourced to. even if the USA is responsible for indias pollution, at the end of the day it is still india that needs to reduce their pollution. EDIT: people seem to misunderstand what i am trying to say. i am not saying that the USA does not pollute. nor am i claiming that india pollutes more than the USA. all i am saying is that pollution that happens in india needs to be stopped in india, and pollution that happens in the USA needs to be stopped in the USA. the question is not who is responsible, the question is, who is in the position to implement a change. the USA can reduce their own pollution, but they can't stop pollution in india without indias cooperation. at best they can stop investments that cause pollution, and make other investments that help india reduce pollution. or they can stop importing products whose creation increases pollution. but either way india needs to contribute to that effort by making laws that enable a reduction of pollution in their country. the USA can't do that for them.

Ekaros 4y ago
Do they? If their per capita pollution is fraction of USA. Wouldn't that mean that to be equal and fair they have quite a lot of room to increase their pollution. And USA should be responsible of actually going far negative at any cost to it's population.
- em-bee 4y ago
  of course. i am only addressing the argument that pollution through outsourcing should be the problem of the country doing the outsourcing, and not the country doing the outsourced work. sure, the outsourcing country is to blame, but the effort to reduce the pollution still needs to be done in the country where the outsourced work is done and the pollution happens.
  - limpbizkitfan 4y ago
    The whole issue in this is people think China and Indian actors are maliciously polluting when they are usually relying on foreign investment from companies that ARE acting maliciously and evading the US to skirt climate regulations and other accountability issues. US/UK/“the west” companies often were the prime movers in building cheap coal power plants to provide electricity to whatever business they outsourced. Just because someone doesn’t look like you doesn’t mean they are evil, or different in mindset or situation.
    - em-bee 4y ago
      ok, fair point, though that is the first time i hear that argument (that's on me of course). i don't believe that any country is maliciously polluting. and it is still the country where the pollution happens that is in the best position to force those polluters to reduce their emmisions. however, you just made me realize that there is something that outsourcing countries possibly can do too. namely, i believe they can influence or even stop investments from their country that cause pollution elsewhere.