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H2 will be the future only because it gives Oil & Gas industries an exit strategy from hydrocarbon and all the logistics already invested around it. If that is

H2 will be the future only because it gives Oil & Gas industries an exit strategy from hydrocarbon and all the logistics already invested around it. If that is the price that it takes for us to move forward without obstructionist lobbying and think-tank disinformation from Oil & gas industries so be it. I appreciate the argument of energy density but there is a handful of applications (aviation?) where there is a real need for setting up all the hydrogen generation infrastructure.

nojito 4y ago
It doesn't make any sense not to leverage the infrastructure that already exists.
- vardump 4y ago
  What kind of hydrogen infrastructure already exists? Don't you need practically everything for it to be new, apart from some buildings perhaps? Maybe some natural gas pipes can be reused at most? You're also going to need pretty extensive safety zones around H2 infrastructure.
  - smileysteve 4y ago
    This. The existing infrastructure of gas stations is not comparable to hydrogen. - Consumers don't wear cryo gloves as they fill, - tanks aren't pressure vessels, - kiosks (and attendants) aren't monitoring pressure Something governments really need to consider implementing are superfund cleanups of the existing tanks. While some stations ( (especially those at highways where 100+ mile trips are likely) may convert to electric or possibly hydrogen, we have only 2-3 years before 50% of 80% of trips can be "fueled" fromm home.
    - hedora 4y ago
      What? - The fill nozzles for hydrogen cars are insulated. - Gas stations manage pressure tanks for propane already, with no problem. - Automated pressure monitoring has been a solved problem since the steam engine. - Hydrogen crackers don’t create superfund sites. If they leak, they leak water, hydrogen and oxygen. A hydrogen cracker can just be plopped down wherever electricity and water are available. You probably need an attendant because of vandals, bathrooms, snacks, etc, like a current gas station. This is why current commercial crackers are often found at existing gas stations.
      - smileysteve 4y ago
        > Gas stations manage pressure tanks for propane already, with no problem. Not in most of the US > Hydrogen crackers don’t create superfund sites But replacing the existing tank to dig another does (whether replaced by hydrogen or electric) > Automated pressure monitoring has been a solved problem since the steam engine. Us still have "do not top off" instructions at every pump
  - nojito 4y ago
    Far easier to convert our current gas infrastructure into h2 infrastructure. https://www.energy.gov/eere/fuelcells/hydrogen-pipelines https://www.energy.gov/eere/fuelcells/hydrogen-pipelines
    - diordiderot 4y ago
      "Converting" yes but it's exponentially more effort to maintain.
      - nojito 4y ago
        Now you’re just moving goalposts.
    - InitialLastName 4y ago
      So if (as per that website) you have to replace the pipelines themselves and much of the gear, is the value of using existing pipelines really just that the right-of-ways, permitting, surveying and meta-infrastructure (roads to the pipelines, supporting construction, etc) are already in place?
    - _ea1k 4y ago
      Because of the issues around brittling, I'm pretty sure "convert" will really mean "replace" in this case.

nojito 4y ago

It doesn't make any sense not to leverage the infrastructure that already exists.

vardump 4y ago
What kind of hydrogen infrastructure already exists? Don't you need practically everything for it to be new, apart from some buildings perhaps? Maybe some natural gas pipes can be reused at most? You're also going to need pretty extensive safety zones around H2 infrastructure.
- smileysteve 4y ago
  This. The existing infrastructure of gas stations is not comparable to hydrogen. - Consumers don't wear cryo gloves as they fill, - tanks aren't pressure vessels, - kiosks (and attendants) aren't monitoring pressure Something governments really need to consider implementing are superfund cleanups of the existing tanks. While some stations ( (especially those at highways where 100+ mile trips are likely) may convert to electric or possibly hydrogen, we have only 2-3 years before 50% of 80% of trips can be "fueled" fromm home.
  - hedora 4y ago
    What? - The fill nozzles for hydrogen cars are insulated. - Gas stations manage pressure tanks for propane already, with no problem. - Automated pressure monitoring has been a solved problem since the steam engine. - Hydrogen crackers don’t create superfund sites. If they leak, they leak water, hydrogen and oxygen. A hydrogen cracker can just be plopped down wherever electricity and water are available. You probably need an attendant because of vandals, bathrooms, snacks, etc, like a current gas station. This is why current commercial crackers are often found at existing gas stations.
    - smileysteve 4y ago
      > Gas stations manage pressure tanks for propane already, with no problem. Not in most of the US > Hydrogen crackers don’t create superfund sites But replacing the existing tank to dig another does (whether replaced by hydrogen or electric) > Automated pressure monitoring has been a solved problem since the steam engine. Us still have "do not top off" instructions at every pump
- nojito 4y ago
  Far easier to convert our current gas infrastructure into h2 infrastructure. https://www.energy.gov/eere/fuelcells/hydrogen-pipelines https://www.energy.gov/eere/fuelcells/hydrogen-pipelines
  - diordiderot 4y ago
    "Converting" yes but it's exponentially more effort to maintain.
    - nojito 4y ago
      Now you’re just moving goalposts.
  - InitialLastName 4y ago
    So if (as per that website) you have to replace the pipelines themselves and much of the gear, is the value of using existing pipelines really just that the right-of-ways, permitting, surveying and meta-infrastructure (roads to the pipelines, supporting construction, etc) are already in place?
  - _ea1k 4y ago
    Because of the issues around brittling, I'm pretty sure "convert" will really mean "replace" in this case.