4 ms·

What do you propose storing it in? It leaks through most materials and makes steels unusably brittle while doing so.

by JonChesterfield 4y ago

oconnore 4y ago
The new tanks are fiber wrapped composite, not steel.
- b112 4y ago
  But ignoring this, allows the anti-h2 crowd to continue to deride h2 tech. The heart of this often claims that h2 is polluting, based upon the fact that currently, we source a lot of h2 from Ng. Of course this disregards that electricity is often derived from dirty sources too, meaning, all the same arguments should be levied against battery based power sources too. What we need, is to get non polluting engine/point of use tech out there, asap! And h2 is the only tech which provides the range, due to refueling speed, to replace many applications. Without end of use clean tech, we have zero hope. Any environmentalist should be happy, joyful, exuberant with h2. Sadly, endless division exists.
- JonChesterfield 4y ago
  Sounds plausible. Is the idea to build pipes out of the same stuff? Might be worth mentioning that fibre composite essentially means epoxy with fibres in, which is not necessarily environmentally superb in the thousands of miles of pipes format. Wonder how people will deal with burying very stiff pipes without them breaking when the ground moves. Maybe sections with rubber joints, though the joints would leak.
b112 4y ago
This is a solved problem, why do people persist with stuff repeated in the 1980s?! There are endless h2 vehicles on the road. Do you think the tanks used, are apt to become brittle, and leak?! There are h2 refueling stations for said vehicles, all over the place. Do you think these leak, and become brittle? And amusingly, your comment is redirecting from the claim that transporting h2 is hard. You are now poking at storage, instead of at transport (which can be done with pipelines, and is done with them).
- JonChesterfield 4y ago
  In my case it's been at least a decade since I looked at materials science and hydrogen destroys steel isn't as well known as hydrogen blows up easily.
blackoil 4y ago
Whatever Mirai tanks are made of.
- freemint 4y ago
  The Mirai needs check ups and part replacement every 5000 miles[1]. It is car sold at a huge loss (middle 5 to low 6 digits) because the tech is super expensive. [1] https://ds.jerrysgarageinc.com/service-schedule/complete/toyota-mirai-2021-3727541-10422392-27871547 https://ds.jerrysgarageinc.com/service-schedule/complete/toy...
  - b112 4y ago
    Incredible. Did you read this? Or just pass it off, as disinformation?! First two I checked, were tires, joints, wipers, fluid levels, etc. Oh yeah, that's so expensive! Listen, this new tech. Yes, Toyota is playing it safe, and examining said new tech regularly. Way to use actual corporate responsibility against them! Meanwhile, this is a diversion away from storage. You're just responding with unrelated info. What is it with the anti h2 crowd?!
    - freemint 4y ago
      And every 10000 miles an inspection of the storage tank, the hydrogen pipe system and the fuel cell's cooling system. (Or 15000km in Europe) https://forum-alternative-antriebe.de/index.php/topic,7495.0.html https://forum-alternative-antriebe.de/index.php/topic,7495.0... The question is can this interval be reduced once the technology matures? Let's look what the Miria II brings in that regard. Compressed or chilled hydrogen storage is hard. I am huge fan of using geological structures for it (salt caverns f.e.), as they are voluminous the pressure route will be an unnecessary cost and security risk. What is it with H2 crowd and their persecution fetish?
      - b112 4y ago
        Before lion battery tech, in the 90s, h2 and fuel cells were the next big thing. The way to move to a pollution free engine. All sorts of claims against h2 tech came out, such as the "there is no way to store it!", which was solved in the 90s and before! These relentless claims, not just about storage, but anything h2 related, were used to erode public trust. BC, Vacouver had h2 buses in the 90s! But that all failed, h2 evaporated, and who do you think pushed an endless whisper campaign back then, with said falsehoods? It wasn't environmentalists! Now, decades later this junk bull is repeated endlessly, by environmentalists, who ignore the buses and cars from the 90s, and all the current vehciles, and just repeat "oh, it's dangerous and you can't use h2. how silly" Yeah. Sure. No reason for me to be upset. So don't blame me if you get flack, for repeating oil industry lies from 30 years ago, which were not true even then. You deserve to be hassled for this! And now, you ignored my comment about Toyota safety verifying their cars, as it is new tech, because they want to know. They aren't inspecting because they have to, or because the tanks are unsafe, they are doing so out of prudence, and correct procedure. So there is nothing to improve with the next model.

What do you propose storing it in? It leaks through most materials and makes steels unusably brittle while doing so.

oconnore 4y ago

The new tanks are fiber wrapped composite, not steel.

b112 4y ago
But ignoring this, allows the anti-h2 crowd to continue to deride h2 tech. The heart of this often claims that h2 is polluting, based upon the fact that currently, we source a lot of h2 from Ng. Of course this disregards that electricity is often derived from dirty sources too, meaning, all the same arguments should be levied against battery based power sources too. What we need, is to get non polluting engine/point of use tech out there, asap! And h2 is the only tech which provides the range, due to refueling speed, to replace many applications. Without end of use clean tech, we have zero hope. Any environmentalist should be happy, joyful, exuberant with h2. Sadly, endless division exists.
JonChesterfield 4y ago
Sounds plausible. Is the idea to build pipes out of the same stuff? Might be worth mentioning that fibre composite essentially means epoxy with fibres in, which is not necessarily environmentally superb in the thousands of miles of pipes format. Wonder how people will deal with burying very stiff pipes without them breaking when the ground moves. Maybe sections with rubber joints, though the joints would leak.

b112 4y ago

This is a solved problem, why do people persist with stuff repeated in the 1980s?! There are endless h2 vehicles on the road. Do you think the tanks used, are apt to become brittle, and leak?! There are h2 refueling stations for said vehicles, all over the place. Do you think these leak, and become brittle? And amusingly, your comment is redirecting from the claim that transporting h2 is hard. You are now poking at storage, instead of at transport (which can be done with pipelines, and is done with them).

JonChesterfield 4y ago
In my case it's been at least a decade since I looked at materials science and hydrogen destroys steel isn't as well known as hydrogen blows up easily.

blackoil 4y ago

Whatever Mirai tanks are made of.

freemint 4y ago
The Mirai needs check ups and part replacement every 5000 miles[1]. It is car sold at a huge loss (middle 5 to low 6 digits) because the tech is super expensive. [1] https://ds.jerrysgarageinc.com/service-schedule/complete/toyota-mirai-2021-3727541-10422392-27871547 https://ds.jerrysgarageinc.com/service-schedule/complete/toy...
- b112 4y ago
  Incredible. Did you read this? Or just pass it off, as disinformation?! First two I checked, were tires, joints, wipers, fluid levels, etc. Oh yeah, that's so expensive! Listen, this new tech. Yes, Toyota is playing it safe, and examining said new tech regularly. Way to use actual corporate responsibility against them! Meanwhile, this is a diversion away from storage. You're just responding with unrelated info. What is it with the anti h2 crowd?!
  - freemint 4y ago
    And every 10000 miles an inspection of the storage tank, the hydrogen pipe system and the fuel cell's cooling system. (Or 15000km in Europe) https://forum-alternative-antriebe.de/index.php/topic,7495.0.html https://forum-alternative-antriebe.de/index.php/topic,7495.0... The question is can this interval be reduced once the technology matures? Let's look what the Miria II brings in that regard. Compressed or chilled hydrogen storage is hard. I am huge fan of using geological structures for it (salt caverns f.e.), as they are voluminous the pressure route will be an unnecessary cost and security risk. What is it with H2 crowd and their persecution fetish?
    - b112 4y ago
      Before lion battery tech, in the 90s, h2 and fuel cells were the next big thing. The way to move to a pollution free engine. All sorts of claims against h2 tech came out, such as the "there is no way to store it!", which was solved in the 90s and before! These relentless claims, not just about storage, but anything h2 related, were used to erode public trust. BC, Vacouver had h2 buses in the 90s! But that all failed, h2 evaporated, and who do you think pushed an endless whisper campaign back then, with said falsehoods? It wasn't environmentalists! Now, decades later this junk bull is repeated endlessly, by environmentalists, who ignore the buses and cars from the 90s, and all the current vehciles, and just repeat "oh, it's dangerous and you can't use h2. how silly" Yeah. Sure. No reason for me to be upset. So don't blame me if you get flack, for repeating oil industry lies from 30 years ago, which were not true even then. You deserve to be hassled for this! And now, you ignored my comment about Toyota safety verifying their cars, as it is new tech, because they want to know. They aren't inspecting because they have to, or because the tanks are unsafe, they are doing so out of prudence, and correct procedure. So there is nothing to improve with the next model.