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One thing I have noticed now, and I'm not sure if its a function of myself and my family being older, is that we feel much less compelled to get together for ho

by sylens 4y ago

One thing I have noticed now, and I'm not sure if its a function of myself and my family being older, is that we feel much less compelled to get together for holidays and other events even though the travel time has remained mostly the same. When I was younger, my family would make it a habit of getting together at least on Christmas and Easter and usually also the 4th of July for a big party. Not everybody lived super close but most were within a 45-60 minute drive. Now, not only is that drive seen as a barrier, but nobody actually wants to host these events and deal with the preparation, the hosting duties, and the cleanup that comes afterwards. I realize that as people get older they don't have the time/energy for these types of activities as much, but I also feel like people were more amenable to these types of gatherings back before social media and smartphones in every pocket happened. There was just less going on and less demand of your time, so a big family party was something that could knock out a big chunk of the day and you would look forward to it.

e3bc54b2 4y ago
I've come to see this as symptom of increased prosperity. When money was tight, people were what provided comfort. Everyone got together to prepare and celebrate. Now that families can afford to pay someone else to do it, we are basically left with a lunch/dinner and some time talking, which doesn't feel far off from old school aristocratic galas. There is little emotional investment beyond 'maintaining the network' and the same 1 hr drives start looking like barriers. I always preferred small (3-8) groups for company so the phenomenon has hit me slightly less severely, as it is easier to get small group together and emotionally involved, but bigger family gatherings are definitively getting rarer.
- sylens 4y ago
  This is an interesting view on it that I hadn't previously considered. But you're right - whereas before a lot of members of the family would prepare food separately and bring it, now there is a lot of use of catering/prepared food for one-off entrees
- topkai22 4y ago
  ACOUP’s series on subsistence farming had a great exploration of why for most of human history investing in social relationships was an import survival strategy: https://acoup.blog/2020/07/24/collections-bread-how-did-they-make-it-part-i-farmers/ https://acoup.blog/2020/07/24/collections-bread-how-did-they... It’s not just that when times were tight people provided comfort, it could quite literally mean the difference between survival or not to have built the bonds of social capital across households, including within the extended family/tribe.
- dr-detroit 4y ago
xkgt 4y ago
I came across an interesting take on this in the book Algorithms to live by [1]. They argue that old age is a time of exploitation (as in explore/exploit strategy) where we tend to prioritize relations/experiences that we know to be rewarding. At a younger age, we are more accommodating to explore new experiences. That is why a teenager entering a dorm in a new environment full of strangers can get excited while for old people entering a retirement home it can be a harrowing experience. 1 - https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1627790365 https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1627790365
- williamtrask 4y ago
  I think there are maybe other reasons to believe a retirement home may be less fun than a dorm.
  - watwut 4y ago
    One of them is sign of being more capable and more independent. The other is sign of being less capable and in need of more help. One of them is getting ready for future career. Other is getting closer to death.
  - bequanna 4y ago
    Mindset probably has a lot to do with it. Knowing you’re at the beginning vs the end. Most older people that don’t have Alzheimer’s or dementia are quite aware of their mortality. We will all get there someday, but I certainly have a lot of respect for those older people that are able to handle aging with so much grace.
  - troppl 4y ago
    I think the other commenters here really don't get what you mean or have never been to a retirement home. For people that really don't understand how this is not a good example: retirement homes reek of death. Even if you yourself are still fit, most people there won't be. This means that even though you would have the (mental/physical) capacity to enjoy your time there, you first need to find the few people that have that as well. Compare that to a college dorm, where almost everyone wants to socialize... It really isn't just about mindset! Sure, that will have something to do with it, but it's really a minor part, and even then, it will be much much much harder to have a positive mindset there then in a college dorm. (Again, I'm not saying it's not possible - I'm really just trying to make people empathize with older people that don't want to go into a retirement home. I think that it's a really reasonable thing not wanting to go there)
randomopining 4y ago
I've noticed the same thing. I think it comes down to social media/internet has gotten so good at capturing our attention, that other stuff like sitting with relatives and talking about lives and such just seems less interesting. It's really messed up.
Swizec 4y ago
Perhaps a controversial take on why we feel like doing less – remember the pandemic? It’s been just long enough that the last 2 years feel like “This is how it’s always been and always will be” But it’s not! The last 2 years are abnormal in every regard. The joy for life will return. The gatherings will be back. Seeing family will be fun again. Might take a little effort at first to break new old habits …
nonameiguess 4y ago
I can't speak to trends, but this hasn't matched my experience personally. The generation just changes. Back in the 80s and 90s, my immediate family would go gather at my aunt's house for Christmas Eve to see my mom's family, then my grandma's house for Christmas to see my dad's family. Today, we trade off between seeing my wife's parents and siblings and their kids for one of either Christmas or Thanksgiving, at her sister's house, and then we visit my parents and siblings and their kids for the other, at my sister's house. Those sisters had to step up and become that next generation, though. There was a gap of a few years after both my mom's parents died when we no longer visited that extended family, but started to have our own as my sisters started having kids old enough to be worth visiting (in the sense that they'll actually form memories) and for us all to be in fairly stable living arrangements. Once that happened, though, as in we started having kids, stable houses to visit, and enough money to make those flights a few times a year, we picked back up just as the previous generation had. And social media and smartphones weren't really a widespread thing yet during the gap, so that clearly wasn't the cause. It was just the older generation dying off and the newer generation not having immediately stable lives and their own younger families to share.
cardosof 4y ago
Same here, but everything changed as some folks started having children. Now all events are back, people attend & they are fun again. So, at least in my family, the events are there for the kids and, without kids, no one gets interested.

by sylens 4y ago

e3bc54b2 4y ago

I've come to see this as symptom of increased prosperity. When money was tight, people were what provided comfort. Everyone got together to prepare and celebrate. Now that families can afford to pay someone else to do it, we are basically left with a lunch/dinner and some time talking, which doesn't feel far off from old school aristocratic galas. There is little emotional investment beyond 'maintaining the network' and the same 1 hr drives start looking like barriers. I always preferred small (3-8) groups for company so the phenomenon has hit me slightly less severely, as it is easier to get small group together and emotionally involved, but bigger family gatherings are definitively getting rarer.

sylens 4y ago
This is an interesting view on it that I hadn't previously considered. But you're right - whereas before a lot of members of the family would prepare food separately and bring it, now there is a lot of use of catering/prepared food for one-off entrees
topkai22 4y ago
ACOUP’s series on subsistence farming had a great exploration of why for most of human history investing in social relationships was an import survival strategy: https://acoup.blog/2020/07/24/collections-bread-how-did-they-make-it-part-i-farmers/ https://acoup.blog/2020/07/24/collections-bread-how-did-they... It’s not just that when times were tight people provided comfort, it could quite literally mean the difference between survival or not to have built the bonds of social capital across households, including within the extended family/tribe.
dr-detroit 4y ago

xkgt 4y ago

I came across an interesting take on this in the book Algorithms to live by [1]. They argue that old age is a time of exploitation (as in explore/exploit strategy) where we tend to prioritize relations/experiences that we know to be rewarding. At a younger age, we are more accommodating to explore new experiences. That is why a teenager entering a dorm in a new environment full of strangers can get excited while for old people entering a retirement home it can be a harrowing experience. 1 - https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1627790365 https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1627790365

williamtrask 4y ago
I think there are maybe other reasons to believe a retirement home may be less fun than a dorm.
- watwut 4y ago
  One of them is sign of being more capable and more independent. The other is sign of being less capable and in need of more help. One of them is getting ready for future career. Other is getting closer to death.
- bequanna 4y ago
  Mindset probably has a lot to do with it. Knowing you’re at the beginning vs the end. Most older people that don’t have Alzheimer’s or dementia are quite aware of their mortality. We will all get there someday, but I certainly have a lot of respect for those older people that are able to handle aging with so much grace.
- troppl 4y ago
  I think the other commenters here really don't get what you mean or have never been to a retirement home. For people that really don't understand how this is not a good example: retirement homes reek of death. Even if you yourself are still fit, most people there won't be. This means that even though you would have the (mental/physical) capacity to enjoy your time there, you first need to find the few people that have that as well. Compare that to a college dorm, where almost everyone wants to socialize... It really isn't just about mindset! Sure, that will have something to do with it, but it's really a minor part, and even then, it will be much much much harder to have a positive mindset there then in a college dorm. (Again, I'm not saying it's not possible - I'm really just trying to make people empathize with older people that don't want to go into a retirement home. I think that it's a really reasonable thing not wanting to go there)

randomopining 4y ago

I've noticed the same thing. I think it comes down to social media/internet has gotten so good at capturing our attention, that other stuff like sitting with relatives and talking about lives and such just seems less interesting. It's really messed up.

Swizec 4y ago

Perhaps a controversial take on why we feel like doing less – remember the pandemic? It’s been just long enough that the last 2 years feel like “This is how it’s always been and always will be” But it’s not! The last 2 years are abnormal in every regard. The joy for life will return. The gatherings will be back. Seeing family will be fun again. Might take a little effort at first to break new old habits …

nonameiguess 4y ago

I can't speak to trends, but this hasn't matched my experience personally. The generation just changes. Back in the 80s and 90s, my immediate family would go gather at my aunt's house for Christmas Eve to see my mom's family, then my grandma's house for Christmas to see my dad's family. Today, we trade off between seeing my wife's parents and siblings and their kids for one of either Christmas or Thanksgiving, at her sister's house, and then we visit my parents and siblings and their kids for the other, at my sister's house. Those sisters had to step up and become that next generation, though. There was a gap of a few years after both my mom's parents died when we no longer visited that extended family, but started to have our own as my sisters started having kids old enough to be worth visiting (in the sense that they'll actually form memories) and for us all to be in fairly stable living arrangements. Once that happened, though, as in we started having kids, stable houses to visit, and enough money to make those flights a few times a year, we picked back up just as the previous generation had. And social media and smartphones weren't really a widespread thing yet during the gap, so that clearly wasn't the cause. It was just the older generation dying off and the newer generation not having immediately stable lives and their own younger families to share.

cardosof 4y ago

Same here, but everything changed as some folks started having children. Now all events are back, people attend & they are fun again. So, at least in my family, the events are there for the kids and, without kids, no one gets interested.