5 ms·

Steve Jobs, the Unabomber, and America's love/hate relationship with technology

34 points by johndcook 15y ago

ctdonath 15y ago
Sad thing is Kaczynski is still with us, while Jobs is not.
jackfoxy 15y ago
Kaczynski was arguably in part created by the worst aspects of the academia he attacked. It's worth reposting https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3234014 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3234014 which was posted on HN some time ago.
- cobrausn 15y ago
  I believe your link is broken - it just leads to this page.
  - jackfoxy 15y ago
    doh! The real link http://www.theatlantic.com/past/docs/issues/2000/06/chase.htm http://www.theatlantic.com/past/docs/issues/2000/06/chase.ht...
fennecfoxen 15y ago
A good part of the "hate" in America's love/hate affair with technology dates back to the horrors of World War II and the subsequent threat of imminent nuclear destruction. Things just haven't been the same since the collapse of the USSR. Anyone born after ~1980 or so is not going to be able to relate with the mindset preceding this.
- invalidOrTaken 15y ago
  Perhaps not from the same angle, but I think we (1986 here) might be better able to relate than you realize, particularly to Thomas Jefferson's quote about the moral effects of dependence on manufacture. OWS is made of people with nothing to give back to the manufacturers. But you're right that I've never worried about being nuked.
  - bdunbar 15y ago
    But you're right that I've never worried about being nuked. It's really a weird way to live. I grew up with this idea that everything could just be gone just like that: family, hearth, civilization. Things became odder, personally, when I joined the Marines. Suddenly it looked like being in the military gave one a better chance of surviving World War III than staying on the home front. Assuming one wasn't at an SAC base, or stationed near a target. Then one day ... the threat just vanished. Very odd. Thomas Jefferson's quote about the moral effects of dependence on manufacture. On the other hand we can't all be farmers. And life on a farm back in those days wasn't idyllic just .. necessary. For all of Jefferson's love affair with the yeoman farmer, he himself wasn't one, wouldn't have been able to think his grand thoughts, read his books if he had to spend 15 hours a day behind a plow.
jonmc12 15y ago
I though to myself, is Kaczynski really the poster-child of the view-point that technology can harm civilization? Surely there are thinkers in this area that did not blow up people. In researching, I found that the Kaczynski was quoted by Kurzweil in The Age of Spiritual Machines, and then re-quoted by Bill Joy in this article - http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/8.04/joy_pr.html http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/8.04/joy_pr.html - interesting.. Are there more authoritative bodies of work in the realm of this point of view? It seems like a very important view for civilization to reconcile - without being flavored by the legacy of a serial killer.
- wladimir 15y ago
  I guess the reason that they use Kaczynski in the text is because is is very well known with the public. The other thinkers of the same paradigm are probably lesser-known philosophers. After all, going against technology is really unpopular. I vaguely remember reading that one of the reasons the Unabomber did his terrorist acts was to get attention for his manifesto, he thought killing was the only way to get through to the media and the populace...
- clammamsham 15y ago
  John Zerzan is who you are looking for, and was even a confidant to Kaczynski. Other people with similar views are Derrik Jensen (less so now) and maybe even Daniel Quinn.
- gnosis 15y ago
  Kaczynski was partially inspired by, and corresponded with, Jacques Ellul[1]. Heidegger[2] is another relatively well known critic of technology.[3] There are many other philosophers who've criticized science and technology. If you are interested, you might want to read about the philosophy of science[4], the field of technoscience[5], and science studies[6]. [1] - https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Jacques_Ellul https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Jacques_Ellul [2] - https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Martin_Heidegger https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Martin_Heideg... [3] - https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/The_Question_Concerning_Technology https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/The_Question_... [4] - https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Philosophy_of_science https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Philosophy_of... [6] - https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Science_studies https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Science_studi...
AznHisoka 15y ago
I think the the dislike of technology is just the surface of the Unabomber's views. His more interesting view is that our world is incongruent with the environment we evolved to thrive in, which causes mental illnesses and insanity, and the general discontent we all feel. Technology is just 1 of many of those incongruencies. If you read his Manifesto, there's actually a lot of things that make sense, it's just that his ways of trying to instill change was kind of lame and ineffective.
clammamsham 15y ago
It is shocking that the article left out Kaczynski's role in the CIA's MKULTRA at Harvard.

34 points by johndcook 15y ago

Sad thing is Kaczynski is still with us, while Jobs is not.

Kaczynski was arguably in part created by the worst aspects of the academia he attacked. It's worth reposting https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3234014 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3234014 which was posted on HN some time ago.

cobrausn 15y ago
I believe your link is broken - it just leads to this page.
- jackfoxy 15y ago
  doh! The real link http://www.theatlantic.com/past/docs/issues/2000/06/chase.htm http://www.theatlantic.com/past/docs/issues/2000/06/chase.ht...

fennecfoxen 15y ago

A good part of the "hate" in America's love/hate affair with technology dates back to the horrors of World War II and the subsequent threat of imminent nuclear destruction. Things just haven't been the same since the collapse of the USSR. Anyone born after ~1980 or so is not going to be able to relate with the mindset preceding this.

invalidOrTaken 15y ago
Perhaps not from the same angle, but I think we (1986 here) might be better able to relate than you realize, particularly to Thomas Jefferson's quote about the moral effects of dependence on manufacture. OWS is made of people with nothing to give back to the manufacturers. But you're right that I've never worried about being nuked.
- bdunbar 15y ago
  But you're right that I've never worried about being nuked. It's really a weird way to live. I grew up with this idea that everything could just be gone just like that: family, hearth, civilization. Things became odder, personally, when I joined the Marines. Suddenly it looked like being in the military gave one a better chance of surviving World War III than staying on the home front. Assuming one wasn't at an SAC base, or stationed near a target. Then one day ... the threat just vanished. Very odd. Thomas Jefferson's quote about the moral effects of dependence on manufacture. On the other hand we can't all be farmers. And life on a farm back in those days wasn't idyllic just .. necessary. For all of Jefferson's love affair with the yeoman farmer, he himself wasn't one, wouldn't have been able to think his grand thoughts, read his books if he had to spend 15 hours a day behind a plow.

jonmc12 15y ago

I though to myself, is Kaczynski really the poster-child of the view-point that technology can harm civilization? Surely there are thinkers in this area that did not blow up people. In researching, I found that the Kaczynski was quoted by Kurzweil in The Age of Spiritual Machines, and then re-quoted by Bill Joy in this article - http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/8.04/joy_pr.html http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/8.04/joy_pr.html - interesting.. Are there more authoritative bodies of work in the realm of this point of view? It seems like a very important view for civilization to reconcile - without being flavored by the legacy of a serial killer.

wladimir 15y ago
I guess the reason that they use Kaczynski in the text is because is is very well known with the public. The other thinkers of the same paradigm are probably lesser-known philosophers. After all, going against technology is really unpopular. I vaguely remember reading that one of the reasons the Unabomber did his terrorist acts was to get attention for his manifesto, he thought killing was the only way to get through to the media and the populace...
clammamsham 15y ago
John Zerzan is who you are looking for, and was even a confidant to Kaczynski. Other people with similar views are Derrik Jensen (less so now) and maybe even Daniel Quinn.
gnosis 15y ago
Kaczynski was partially inspired by, and corresponded with, Jacques Ellul[1]. Heidegger[2] is another relatively well known critic of technology.[3] There are many other philosophers who've criticized science and technology. If you are interested, you might want to read about the philosophy of science[4], the field of technoscience[5], and science studies[6]. [1] - https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Jacques_Ellul https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Jacques_Ellul [2] - https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Martin_Heidegger https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Martin_Heideg... [3] - https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/The_Question_Concerning_Technology https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/The_Question_... [4] - https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Philosophy_of_science https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Philosophy_of... [6] - https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Science_studies https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Science_studi...

AznHisoka 15y ago

I think the the dislike of technology is just the surface of the Unabomber's views. His more interesting view is that our world is incongruent with the environment we evolved to thrive in, which causes mental illnesses and insanity, and the general discontent we all feel. Technology is just 1 of many of those incongruencies. If you read his Manifesto, there's actually a lot of things that make sense, it's just that his ways of trying to instill change was kind of lame and ineffective.

clammamsham 15y ago

It is shocking that the article left out Kaczynski's role in the CIA's MKULTRA at Harvard.