4 ms·

> On the other hand I'm not sure where you see moral panic here, I'm really just expressing knowledge and my opinion. Not very emotionally so. Think of the chi

> On the other hand I'm not sure where you see moral panic here, I'm really just expressing knowledge and my opinion. Not very emotionally so. Think of the children, etc etc. I feel like we could flip a few key words here and have this be straight from the 90s.

Mo3 4y ago
- pseudalopex 4y ago
  Small children do not take hormones or have gender related surgery. Adolescents under medical oversight can. These treatments have very low regret rates and reduce suicides.
  - bobsmooth 4y ago
    >These things never happen, and when they do, it's a good thing.
    - pseudalopex 4y ago
      Adolescents are not small children. And do you think fewer adolescents killing themselves is bad?
  - throwaway290 4y ago
    Ehm... Sorry to break it to you, but people who think they were born the wrong sex are increasingly treated with hormones before the onset of puberty (with puberty-delaying treatments it's kind of the point). Not arguing whether it's good or bad, but by definition they are children at that point in time.
    - magicalist 4y ago
      You can take them at the onset of puberty, at which point you are an adolescent by definition, which is that the GP said.
      - throwaway290 4y ago
        I'm not saying what you can do or not, I just see evidence (a quick google away) that people are given meds to delay puberty, meaning before its start (= onset), meaning they are not yet adolescents by definition. Edit to everyone pointing out a technicality: yes, puberty blockers != hormone replacement therapy. However, puberty blockers ⊆ hormone replacement therapy.
        Akronymus 4y ago
        "Delaying" Not really the right word to use IMO, as the body wont go through proper puberty after stopping the blockers.
        pseudalopex 4y ago
        No. Puberty blockers have been prescribed for early onset puberty for over 30 years. Puberty proceeds the same basically unless they take cross sex hormones.
        Akronymus 4y ago
        Thars a very different usage than the one I am talking about. I am talking about using it on transgemder individuals to block normal puberty, until after it wouldve been over normally.
        pseudalopex 4y ago
        It's rare for someone taking puberty blockers to be undecided still when puberty would be over. How old is too old? What would be not proper? Where did you get this information?
    - pseudalopex 4y ago
      Puberty blockers are hormone agonists. Not hormones.
      - Mo3 4y ago
        Ah, well that it sure does make it better.
        pseudalopex 4y ago
        Hormones in this context means sex hormones. Delaying puberty is more conservative than inducing puberty. It isn't better to you?
    - Elinvynia 4y ago
      Puberty blockers != Hormone replacement therapy
  - Mo3 4y ago
    - magicalist 4y ago
      > They do now. Giving puberty blockers before puberty doesn't do anything. At this point, please cite a source for this epidemic of six year olds taking GnRH. > No, that's why I made sure to specifically write "teenagers" No, you specifically wrote > significant amounts of small children taking hormones and having gender reassignment surgery Also changed: > That's the case until now, since only a few years ago there were 4000% less instances Weird, I thought that was > 4000% increase in teenagers claiming to be gay not transgender? > The data is lagging, obviously, but I'm somewhat certain that statistic is going to be skewed soon. Uh huh. > just go on Youtube and watch the doctors speaking out now I think we're narrowing in on the problem.
      - Mo3 4y ago
    - pseudalopex 4y ago
      Adolescents can take hormones. Near adolescents can take puberty blockers. Not small children. You wrote teenagers later. > That's the case until now, since only a few years ago there were 4000% less instances. Did you mean the claimed 4000% increase in a survey of American college students between 2006 and 2021? The category changed from transgendered to transgender or gender non conforming.[1][2] Gender non conforming and trans are different. Trans and willing to say trans in 2006 are different. Students at self selected colleges don't represent the population. Did you mean the claimed 4000% increase in under 18s referred to the NHS gender service between 2009 and 2017? The articles saying it was 4000% or more said the numbers were 97 and 2,510. 2,510 isn't 4000% of 97. The official adjusted numbers were 77 and 2,444.[3] 2,444 was between 0.30% and 0.37% of their birth years.[4] Near the low end of estimates for trans people. What is the right number? How do you know? > If only 10% of the 4000% end up regretting their decision or god forbid even committing suicide the non-regrets will be a minority. 10% regret is 90% non regret. > just go on Youtube and watch the doctors speaking out now. Or any other source. There is no real oversight any more, and they cannot voice their medical opinion freely. Suggesting that it would be indicated to wait and assess other psychological factors first apparently directly leads to them being terrorized and publicly shamed as transphobic. Did you check those claims more carefully than 4000%? > I have a hard time seeing how any of this helps anyone. It doesn't even help transgender folks. Any of what? Transitioning younger?[5] [1] https://www.acha.org/documents/ncha/ACHA-NCHA_Reference_Group_ExecutiveSummary_Fall2006.pdf https://www.acha.org/documents/ncha/ACHA-NCHA_Reference_Grou... [2] https://www.acha.org/documents/ncha/NCHA-III_FALL_2021_REFERENCE_GROUP_EXECUTIVE_SUMMARY.pdf https://www.acha.org/documents/ncha/NCHA-III_FALL_2021_REFER... [3] https://tavistockandportman.nhs.uk/about-us/news/stories/referrals-gender-identity-development-service-gids-level-2018-19/ https://tavistockandportman.nhs.uk/about-us/news/stories/ref... [4] https://www.statista.com/statistics/281981/live-births-in-the-united-kingdom-uk/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/281981/live-births-in-th... [5] https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/transgender-hormones-teenager-mental-health-b1991724.html https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families...

Mo3 4y ago

pseudalopex 4y ago
Small children do not take hormones or have gender related surgery. Adolescents under medical oversight can. These treatments have very low regret rates and reduce suicides.
- bobsmooth 4y ago
  >These things never happen, and when they do, it's a good thing.
  - pseudalopex 4y ago
    Adolescents are not small children. And do you think fewer adolescents killing themselves is bad?
- throwaway290 4y ago
  Ehm... Sorry to break it to you, but people who think they were born the wrong sex are increasingly treated with hormones before the onset of puberty (with puberty-delaying treatments it's kind of the point). Not arguing whether it's good or bad, but by definition they are children at that point in time.
  - magicalist 4y ago
    You can take them at the onset of puberty, at which point you are an adolescent by definition, which is that the GP said.
    - throwaway290 4y ago
      I'm not saying what you can do or not, I just see evidence (a quick google away) that people are given meds to delay puberty, meaning before its start (= onset), meaning they are not yet adolescents by definition. Edit to everyone pointing out a technicality: yes, puberty blockers != hormone replacement therapy. However, puberty blockers ⊆ hormone replacement therapy.
      - Akronymus 4y ago
        "Delaying" Not really the right word to use IMO, as the body wont go through proper puberty after stopping the blockers.
        pseudalopex 4y ago
        No. Puberty blockers have been prescribed for early onset puberty for over 30 years. Puberty proceeds the same basically unless they take cross sex hormones.
        Akronymus 4y ago
        Thars a very different usage than the one I am talking about. I am talking about using it on transgemder individuals to block normal puberty, until after it wouldve been over normally.
        pseudalopex 4y ago
        It's rare for someone taking puberty blockers to be undecided still when puberty would be over. How old is too old? What would be not proper? Where did you get this information?
  - pseudalopex 4y ago
    Puberty blockers are hormone agonists. Not hormones.
    - Mo3 4y ago
      Ah, well that it sure does make it better.
      - pseudalopex 4y ago
        Hormones in this context means sex hormones. Delaying puberty is more conservative than inducing puberty. It isn't better to you?
  - Elinvynia 4y ago
    Puberty blockers != Hormone replacement therapy
- Mo3 4y ago
  - magicalist 4y ago
    > They do now. Giving puberty blockers before puberty doesn't do anything. At this point, please cite a source for this epidemic of six year olds taking GnRH. > No, that's why I made sure to specifically write "teenagers" No, you specifically wrote > significant amounts of small children taking hormones and having gender reassignment surgery Also changed: > That's the case until now, since only a few years ago there were 4000% less instances Weird, I thought that was > 4000% increase in teenagers claiming to be gay not transgender? > The data is lagging, obviously, but I'm somewhat certain that statistic is going to be skewed soon. Uh huh. > just go on Youtube and watch the doctors speaking out now I think we're narrowing in on the problem.
    - Mo3 4y ago
  - pseudalopex 4y ago
    Adolescents can take hormones. Near adolescents can take puberty blockers. Not small children. You wrote teenagers later. > That's the case until now, since only a few years ago there were 4000% less instances. Did you mean the claimed 4000% increase in a survey of American college students between 2006 and 2021? The category changed from transgendered to transgender or gender non conforming.[1][2] Gender non conforming and trans are different. Trans and willing to say trans in 2006 are different. Students at self selected colleges don't represent the population. Did you mean the claimed 4000% increase in under 18s referred to the NHS gender service between 2009 and 2017? The articles saying it was 4000% or more said the numbers were 97 and 2,510. 2,510 isn't 4000% of 97. The official adjusted numbers were 77 and 2,444.[3] 2,444 was between 0.30% and 0.37% of their birth years.[4] Near the low end of estimates for trans people. What is the right number? How do you know? > If only 10% of the 4000% end up regretting their decision or god forbid even committing suicide the non-regrets will be a minority. 10% regret is 90% non regret. > just go on Youtube and watch the doctors speaking out now. Or any other source. There is no real oversight any more, and they cannot voice their medical opinion freely. Suggesting that it would be indicated to wait and assess other psychological factors first apparently directly leads to them being terrorized and publicly shamed as transphobic. Did you check those claims more carefully than 4000%? > I have a hard time seeing how any of this helps anyone. It doesn't even help transgender folks. Any of what? Transitioning younger?[5] [1] https://www.acha.org/documents/ncha/ACHA-NCHA_Reference_Group_ExecutiveSummary_Fall2006.pdf https://www.acha.org/documents/ncha/ACHA-NCHA_Reference_Grou... [2] https://www.acha.org/documents/ncha/NCHA-III_FALL_2021_REFERENCE_GROUP_EXECUTIVE_SUMMARY.pdf https://www.acha.org/documents/ncha/NCHA-III_FALL_2021_REFER... [3] https://tavistockandportman.nhs.uk/about-us/news/stories/referrals-gender-identity-development-service-gids-level-2018-19/ https://tavistockandportman.nhs.uk/about-us/news/stories/ref... [4] https://www.statista.com/statistics/281981/live-births-in-the-united-kingdom-uk/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/281981/live-births-in-th... [5] https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/transgender-hormones-teenager-mental-health-b1991724.html https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families...