4 ms·

This is missing the point. Your reply boils down to a very confident but absurd explanation that you’re using Yiddish to mean any character with enough “jewy” t

This is missing the point. Your reply boils down to a very confident but absurd explanation that you’re using Yiddish to mean any character with enough “jewy” traits. You don’t even have to be a Jew to be a yid anymore! The problem isn’t that you’re “conflating the two”, in fact the offense comes from how you’re dividing them. You’re taking a word that literally means Jewish, and as a noun is almost always pejorative, and using it to mean “jew-y but not necessarily jew-ish”. I don’t know why you think that’s better, but it isn’t! I think there’s an underlying point where we’re passing each other by that there’s a real difference between something like “a character derived from the Yiddish theater” or even “an archetypal Yiddish character” and “The Yiddish Brooklynite”. The first two are drawing a connection between a character, a culture, and a theatrical condition. The second, your usage, is just labeling an archetype Yiddish in preference to labeling it Jewish. To try and be as clear as I can: I’m not sayin that these archetypes don’t exist (although I think you’re over-broad, as in your very confident mischaracterization of Rosie and subsequent goalpost-move), or are bad, or shouldn’t be used or talked about or whatever. What I’m saying, as a Jew (and perhaps speaking to another!) is please don’t use the word Yiddish to describe a person or group. You can just say Jewish! It’s fine! No one will think that you mean Jon Stewart and Larry David are playing the same character! Or even just Brooklynite, if you’re being honest with yourself about the character having nothing to do with Jewishness.

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
kristopolous 4y ago
You apparently know the origin is from Yiddish Theater. That's clearly what I was referring to. As far as Rosie goes, take it up with the scholarship. For example https://mpcaaca.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/04/Burrell-Race-Class-and-Rosey-the-Robot-Final-Draft.pdf https://mpcaaca.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/04/Burrell-Race-...
- smogcutter 4y ago
  We're talking past each other. I understand your argument, and am saying that it's a poor one. You either do not understand why, which at this point must be my own fault, or do not care. I won't post further in this thread, as it's clearly not going anywhere. > You apparently know the origin is from Yiddish Theater. That's clearly what I was referring to. The problem, again, is that you weren't referring to it. You were labeling a character "Yiddish". This may seem to you like hair-splitting, but I assure you it's not. In English usage, the word Yiddish does not refer to a person. Full stop. The Yiddish Theater is so-called because it's the Yiddish-Language Theater, not because it's extra jew-ey. But look, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that this isn't your coinage. Do you have a reference establishing "The Yiddish Brooklynite" as a common or accepted usage in the way you're deploying it? Maybe a book or article that uses the term to describe Bugs Bunny? Please post, I'm perfectly happy to be the schlimazel here. > As far as Rosie goes, take it up with the scholarship. For example Sure, fine. Considering she's a combo maid and maternal figure in a midcentury sitcom you can probably read aspects of Rosie that way. But again you're missing the point, which isn't that you were necessarily wrong. It's that your response to being challenged wasn't to engage with what the other poster was saying, or to argue your point, or even, as here, to type "jetsons mammy" into google scholar and link the first article that comes up. It was to dismiss the comment and continue bloviating in a different direction. This was also in substance the character of your response to me. It's an approach to discussion calibrated to earn points on HN, but not one, in my experience, that shows the interest or capacity to hear something from a different perspective.
causi 4y ago
You’re taking a word that literally means Jewish, and as a noun is almost always pejorative, and using it to mean “jew-y but not necessarily jew-ish”. What's the preferred term for that?
- smogcutter 4y ago
  I'll suggest that you don't need one. But if you do, I promise you that Yiddish ain't it.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

kristopolous 4y ago

You apparently know the origin is from Yiddish Theater. That's clearly what I was referring to. As far as Rosie goes, take it up with the scholarship. For example https://mpcaaca.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/04/Burrell-Race-Class-and-Rosey-the-Robot-Final-Draft.pdf https://mpcaaca.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/04/Burrell-Race-...

smogcutter 4y ago
We're talking past each other. I understand your argument, and am saying that it's a poor one. You either do not understand why, which at this point must be my own fault, or do not care. I won't post further in this thread, as it's clearly not going anywhere. > You apparently know the origin is from Yiddish Theater. That's clearly what I was referring to. The problem, again, is that you weren't referring to it. You were labeling a character "Yiddish". This may seem to you like hair-splitting, but I assure you it's not. In English usage, the word Yiddish does not refer to a person. Full stop. The Yiddish Theater is so-called because it's the Yiddish-Language Theater, not because it's extra jew-ey. But look, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that this isn't your coinage. Do you have a reference establishing "The Yiddish Brooklynite" as a common or accepted usage in the way you're deploying it? Maybe a book or article that uses the term to describe Bugs Bunny? Please post, I'm perfectly happy to be the schlimazel here. > As far as Rosie goes, take it up with the scholarship. For example Sure, fine. Considering she's a combo maid and maternal figure in a midcentury sitcom you can probably read aspects of Rosie that way. But again you're missing the point, which isn't that you were necessarily wrong. It's that your response to being challenged wasn't to engage with what the other poster was saying, or to argue your point, or even, as here, to type "jetsons mammy" into google scholar and link the first article that comes up. It was to dismiss the comment and continue bloviating in a different direction. This was also in substance the character of your response to me. It's an approach to discussion calibrated to earn points on HN, but not one, in my experience, that shows the interest or capacity to hear something from a different perspective.

causi 4y ago

You’re taking a word that literally means Jewish, and as a noun is almost always pejorative, and using it to mean “jew-y but not necessarily jew-ish”. What's the preferred term for that?

smogcutter 4y ago
I'll suggest that you don't need one. But if you do, I promise you that Yiddish ain't it.