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>the people who were into FIRE [...] have ended up markedly worse off by their own definition of success than people who took more traditional routes. Can you

>the people who were into FIRE [...] have ended up markedly worse off by their own definition of success than people who took more traditional routes. Can you please elaborate?

CSMastermind 4y ago
Sure, the people I know who: - Focused on getting passive income streams set up through real estate, stock investment, content creation, retail arbitrage, etc. - Were particularly frugal with their money and avoided travel, parties, 'lifestyle creep', etc. - Attempted to min/max their careers by switching jobs every 1.5 to 2 years and negotiating hard each time. Are: - Still not retired in their mid to late 30s. - On track to retire in their early 50s. - Slightly behind their peers in terms of career progression. While those who joined big tech, worked hard, and let their equity compound are basically on pace to retire at the same age while also getting to spend their youth traveling, partying, and generally enjoying life. Plus, I've found the people who were hyper focused on retiring early or achieving financial independence to be less happy and more self-critical about their financial decisions.
- hparadiz 4y ago
  I've personally not done any of that and just became a home owner but it has only been possible from crypto investments in which I got extremely lucky. It had absolutely nothing to do with my tech career or how much extra work I do outside my 9-5.
- jwhiles 4y ago
  I think you have a somewhat distorted understanding of what FIRE means, or at least one that is different to my own understanding of the term. I think of FIRE as essentially trying to optimise lifestyle and work in order to quickly reach a point where you don't need to work by paying attention to your income and expenses. This doesn't necessarily imply extreme frugality, and I think the mindset should actually make you more likely to go into big tech or the like because increasing income has a bigger impact than decreasing expenditure on for most people. For sure there are people in the space who are trying to sell people on the idea that drinking coffee or not is the factor in when they will retire - but these people are fundamentally hucksters I think.
- badpun 4y ago
  > While those who joined big tech, worked hard, and let their equity compound are basically on pace to retire at the same age while also getting to spend their youth traveling, partying, and generally enjoying life. I though joining big tech and riding raises and promotions is basically the mainstream way to FIRE these days? Side hustles are ridiculous small potatoes in comparison.
- agota 4y ago
  I believe that one reason for this is that FIRE, passive income, entrepreneurship, etc. attracts people who are looking for shortcuts. This means that they are optimizing for the short term, which is counterproductive to success in any area of life. Back in the 2010s we saw this with niche sites, ebooks, info products, etc. It worked for some but it's probably safe to say that learning to code and getting a tech job would have had better ROI for most people who went down that route. At the moment we are seeing this in the crypto space, where you have all these guys in their 20s who are "investing in crypto" (gambling) because they want a Lamborghini ASAP. They would likely be better off learning to code and getting a tech job, but they can’t see it at the moment because they don’t have the perspective that comes with time.
- _69x2 4y ago
  >Plus, I've found the people who were hyper focused on retiring early or achieving financial independence to be less happy and more self-critical about their financial decisions. I also wanted to comment on this. What I have observed about FIRE folks is that they start optimizing everything for FIRE. This isn't a healthy way to live, certainly not in the long run, and it's not like this goes away once they reach FIRE. Here's an article where Mrs. Money Mustache shared how uncomfortable she was about her parents taking her and their son to the movies, then to an ice cream place. She was already retired, literally a millionaire. https://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2012/07/27/youll-never-be-normal-again/ https://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2012/07/27/youll-never-be-no...
- jodrellblank 4y ago
  If they built passive incomes, minmaxed their earnings and were financially frugal, they would have more income and less outgoing. How come they aren't financially retired by now - what went wrong with that plan?

>the people who were into FIRE [...] have ended up markedly worse off by their own definition of success than people who took more traditional routes. Can you please elaborate?

CSMastermind 4y ago

Sure, the people I know who: - Focused on getting passive income streams set up through real estate, stock investment, content creation, retail arbitrage, etc. - Were particularly frugal with their money and avoided travel, parties, 'lifestyle creep', etc. - Attempted to min/max their careers by switching jobs every 1.5 to 2 years and negotiating hard each time. Are: - Still not retired in their mid to late 30s. - On track to retire in their early 50s. - Slightly behind their peers in terms of career progression. While those who joined big tech, worked hard, and let their equity compound are basically on pace to retire at the same age while also getting to spend their youth traveling, partying, and generally enjoying life. Plus, I've found the people who were hyper focused on retiring early or achieving financial independence to be less happy and more self-critical about their financial decisions.

hparadiz 4y ago
I've personally not done any of that and just became a home owner but it has only been possible from crypto investments in which I got extremely lucky. It had absolutely nothing to do with my tech career or how much extra work I do outside my 9-5.
jwhiles 4y ago
I think you have a somewhat distorted understanding of what FIRE means, or at least one that is different to my own understanding of the term. I think of FIRE as essentially trying to optimise lifestyle and work in order to quickly reach a point where you don't need to work by paying attention to your income and expenses. This doesn't necessarily imply extreme frugality, and I think the mindset should actually make you more likely to go into big tech or the like because increasing income has a bigger impact than decreasing expenditure on for most people. For sure there are people in the space who are trying to sell people on the idea that drinking coffee or not is the factor in when they will retire - but these people are fundamentally hucksters I think.
badpun 4y ago
> While those who joined big tech, worked hard, and let their equity compound are basically on pace to retire at the same age while also getting to spend their youth traveling, partying, and generally enjoying life. I though joining big tech and riding raises and promotions is basically the mainstream way to FIRE these days? Side hustles are ridiculous small potatoes in comparison.
agota 4y ago
I believe that one reason for this is that FIRE, passive income, entrepreneurship, etc. attracts people who are looking for shortcuts. This means that they are optimizing for the short term, which is counterproductive to success in any area of life. Back in the 2010s we saw this with niche sites, ebooks, info products, etc. It worked for some but it's probably safe to say that learning to code and getting a tech job would have had better ROI for most people who went down that route. At the moment we are seeing this in the crypto space, where you have all these guys in their 20s who are "investing in crypto" (gambling) because they want a Lamborghini ASAP. They would likely be better off learning to code and getting a tech job, but they can’t see it at the moment because they don’t have the perspective that comes with time.
_69x2 4y ago
>Plus, I've found the people who were hyper focused on retiring early or achieving financial independence to be less happy and more self-critical about their financial decisions. I also wanted to comment on this. What I have observed about FIRE folks is that they start optimizing everything for FIRE. This isn't a healthy way to live, certainly not in the long run, and it's not like this goes away once they reach FIRE. Here's an article where Mrs. Money Mustache shared how uncomfortable she was about her parents taking her and their son to the movies, then to an ice cream place. She was already retired, literally a millionaire. https://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2012/07/27/youll-never-be-normal-again/ https://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2012/07/27/youll-never-be-no...
jodrellblank 4y ago
If they built passive incomes, minmaxed their earnings and were financially frugal, they would have more income and less outgoing. How come they aren't financially retired by now - what went wrong with that plan?