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>Government might be bad, and if they did bad, can we criticize it? Assange rots in prison, Alex Jones gets found guilty of defamation by default judgment, FBI

>Government might be bad, and if they did bad, can we criticize it? Assange rots in prison, Alex Jones gets found guilty of defamation by default judgment, FBI raids James O'Keefe and leaks his phone data to NYT (which he is suing), and to top it all we have a soviet-style shitshow trial directed by politicians in January 6th Committee. Now, I will see some awesome mental gymnastics of people explaining how none of these things have any effect on freedom of speech.

oarsinsync 4y ago
> Alex Jones gets found guilty of defamation by default judgment Given that Alex Jones has in the last 24 hours been found to be lying under oath repeatedly during his trial, since his lawyers accidentally gave a full digital copy of his phone to the prosecuting attorneys (which they were supposed to have done already during discovery, but did not), this may not be the most effective example.
- BrainVirus 4y ago
  It's a perfect example of how people are brainwashed to accept degradation of their basic speech and due process rights because powers that be found an example (a scapegoat, really) that's not sympathetic to the public. I recall the debates around banning Jones from YouTube. It was "sold" as an unprecedented step to combat unprecedented violation of basic decency. And here were are a few years later, when simply mentioning some wrongthink words automatically demonetizes your videos, splatters them with warnings and even cuts live streams from air. People are banned from YouTube left and right (pun intended). It's the new normal and brave technologists who posed as defenders of "real" free speech are mostly rationalizing and cheering it on. BTW, would you care to explain how something that happened in the last 24 hours is relevant to the issuance of default judgment that occurred in November last year?
  - altruios 4y ago
    the default judgment happened after 6 months of 'fuck around and find out' from Alex 'turn the frogs gay' Jones... he putted around with blatant disregard for the trial and cries crocodile tears when he's found lying under oath during the damages hearing... Alex 'you may be my neighbor but i'll eat your ass' jones is not some Bastian of freedom - he's a snake oil salesman profiting off other's pain and misery. selling 'real' pills his family makes. He had due judgement - he had 6 months to do literally anything (He didn't raise a finger in this regard). You don't 'not go to trial' by ignoring it... that's not how this works... not how any of this works. BESIDES ALL THAT: I agree with you: platforms are censoring people... that's in reaction to malicious (not just false - but intentionally crafted and designed to cause harm) information propagating through our social networks - mind viruses just like bulimia and anorexia that are shared socially - only far more potent: things like QAnnon. information is spread not by how true it is - but by how sticky. if malicious actors infect a network - besides censorship - the alternative is violence - either by inaction allowing the malicious mind virus to flourish - or by taking action against it. We are in a brave new world - and we don't even know the tools we need to protect ourselves as a species from the existential threat of memetic viruses... Maybe we just all need to stop sneezing our thoughts out onto the internet letting them congeal into this amalgamations of ideas that seem to have a life of their own. the life status of biological viruses is suspect. I suspect viruses made of thoughts and memetic imagery can potentially reach agent-hood.
    - hiptobecubic 4y ago
      This kind of argument is a fundamental disagreement between "censorship can be ok" people vs not. Whose responsibility is it that the public is not tricked? Policy makers? Each individual person? etc
puppymaster 4y ago
And books and movies are being or have been made about Assange and Alex from both sides with no repercussion. Case in point. Here's another one: Show me a China documentary that outlines the overreaching adverse effect of state digital surveillance on China population. I can show you at least 5 docs on NSA and Snowden, produced by HBO / published by Harper Collins.
- BrainVirus 4y ago
  It's astounding how smoothly we went from "you can criticize the government" to "you can make a documentary about someone who criticized the government and got royally fucked". As if those two are the same thing.
  - hiptobecubic 4y ago
    To be fair, none of the examples you gave seem just like "criticizing the government," honestly. Snowden physically leaked a bunch of docs he agreed ahead of time would be a criminal offense to leak. I think what he did was the right thing to do and we should have said that whistleblower protections apply to people in his position, but I feel like that's a different problem?
dragonwriter 4y ago
> Alex Jones gets found guilty of defamation by default judgment Civilly liable, not “guilty”, and how is that not his own fault?

oarsinsync 4y ago

> Alex Jones gets found guilty of defamation by default judgment Given that Alex Jones has in the last 24 hours been found to be lying under oath repeatedly during his trial, since his lawyers accidentally gave a full digital copy of his phone to the prosecuting attorneys (which they were supposed to have done already during discovery, but did not), this may not be the most effective example.

BrainVirus 4y ago
It's a perfect example of how people are brainwashed to accept degradation of their basic speech and due process rights because powers that be found an example (a scapegoat, really) that's not sympathetic to the public. I recall the debates around banning Jones from YouTube. It was "sold" as an unprecedented step to combat unprecedented violation of basic decency. And here were are a few years later, when simply mentioning some wrongthink words automatically demonetizes your videos, splatters them with warnings and even cuts live streams from air. People are banned from YouTube left and right (pun intended). It's the new normal and brave technologists who posed as defenders of "real" free speech are mostly rationalizing and cheering it on. BTW, would you care to explain how something that happened in the last 24 hours is relevant to the issuance of default judgment that occurred in November last year?
- altruios 4y ago
  the default judgment happened after 6 months of 'fuck around and find out' from Alex 'turn the frogs gay' Jones... he putted around with blatant disregard for the trial and cries crocodile tears when he's found lying under oath during the damages hearing... Alex 'you may be my neighbor but i'll eat your ass' jones is not some Bastian of freedom - he's a snake oil salesman profiting off other's pain and misery. selling 'real' pills his family makes. He had due judgement - he had 6 months to do literally anything (He didn't raise a finger in this regard). You don't 'not go to trial' by ignoring it... that's not how this works... not how any of this works. BESIDES ALL THAT: I agree with you: platforms are censoring people... that's in reaction to malicious (not just false - but intentionally crafted and designed to cause harm) information propagating through our social networks - mind viruses just like bulimia and anorexia that are shared socially - only far more potent: things like QAnnon. information is spread not by how true it is - but by how sticky. if malicious actors infect a network - besides censorship - the alternative is violence - either by inaction allowing the malicious mind virus to flourish - or by taking action against it. We are in a brave new world - and we don't even know the tools we need to protect ourselves as a species from the existential threat of memetic viruses... Maybe we just all need to stop sneezing our thoughts out onto the internet letting them congeal into this amalgamations of ideas that seem to have a life of their own. the life status of biological viruses is suspect. I suspect viruses made of thoughts and memetic imagery can potentially reach agent-hood.
  - hiptobecubic 4y ago
    This kind of argument is a fundamental disagreement between "censorship can be ok" people vs not. Whose responsibility is it that the public is not tricked? Policy makers? Each individual person? etc

puppymaster 4y ago

And books and movies are being or have been made about Assange and Alex from both sides with no repercussion. Case in point. Here's another one: Show me a China documentary that outlines the overreaching adverse effect of state digital surveillance on China population. I can show you at least 5 docs on NSA and Snowden, produced by HBO / published by Harper Collins.

BrainVirus 4y ago
It's astounding how smoothly we went from "you can criticize the government" to "you can make a documentary about someone who criticized the government and got royally fucked". As if those two are the same thing.
- hiptobecubic 4y ago
  To be fair, none of the examples you gave seem just like "criticizing the government," honestly. Snowden physically leaked a bunch of docs he agreed ahead of time would be a criminal offense to leak. I think what he did was the right thing to do and we should have said that whistleblower protections apply to people in his position, but I feel like that's a different problem?

dragonwriter 4y ago

> Alex Jones gets found guilty of defamation by default judgment Civilly liable, not “guilty”, and how is that not his own fault?