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Suicide isn't a mental illness like depression and OCD and Schizophrenia. While I do agree that this isn't the best time for "ethical theory," I also agree with

Suicide isn't a mental illness like depression and OCD and Schizophrenia. While I do agree that this isn't the best time for "ethical theory," I also agree with thomasgerbe in that suicide is a fundamental human right. If one has no desire to continue living, who are you to force them to?

gujk 15y ago
The complication is that most life choices are to some extent reversible in case of mistake. Suicide is not, and therefore is subject to more delicate considetation. Also, for anyone not a hermit, suicide affects other people who may have moral or legal claims of dependency.
hellrich 15y ago
Your ability to make this decision would be impaired if you had a mental illness like depression.
ryan-allen 15y ago
Of course suicide isn't a mental illness. How about you have a look at some facts from the US NIMH [1], how about I summarise some poignant facts: "Research shows that risk factors for suicide include: depression and other mental disorders, or a substance-abuse disorder (often in combination with other mental disorders). More than 90 percent of people who die by suicide have these risk factors." So, you're happy to condemn 90% of people who commit suicide to go and 'make that choice' because 'it's their right'? I don't disagree that it's anyone's so-called 'right' to kill themselves, but when 90% of individuals who do so are suffering from mental illness or substance abuse disorders, I think it's far to broad and naive (not to mention downright heartless) to fob it off as a mere 'choice'. Have you known anyone personally who's comitted suicide? I bet that if someone close to you, whom was having a hard time (by stretch of the mind I wouldn't say it's too difficult to imagine in this economy, the loss of a job and a home could be a sufficient trigger for a Major Depressive Episode), decided to kill themselves over a temporary hardship. I doubt you'd merely say "well, it was their choice". I bet you'd rethink your statement and your position. You my friend are very wrong. [1] http://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/publications/suicide-in-the-us-statistics-and-prevention/index.shtml http://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/publications/suicide-in-the-u...
- LancerSykera 15y ago
  I never condemned anyone, nor did I say that I support suicide. What I support is the ability to choose freely the course of one's life. I'm curious to know what percentage of the general population suffers from mental and/or substance abuse disorders, in comparison with that 90%. And no, I have not known anyone personally who has killed themselves, at least not to the best of my knowledge. I do know, however, that I myself suffer from a number of "mental disorders" and at one point found myself a good bit suicidal. If someone close to me did kill themselves, of course I wouldn't just say "ah well," that's being unrealistic. I'd be just as affected by it as if they got hit by a bus. My views on death are much different than most, though, so regardless of the manner or intent, it wouldn't affect me anywhere near the same way as you. No position changed, you lose your bet.
- thomasgerbe 15y ago
  "Have you known anyone personally who's comitted suicide?" Yes. My cousin did by jumping and my sister attempted by overdose. Though I called an ambulance which saved her life. I won't argue that people shouldn't intervene when they can. 'I doubt you'd merely say "well, it was their choice". I bet you'd rethink your statement and your position.' Not really. She's gone through a lot of shit. Meds. Psychiatrist. Friends. Hobbies. Boyfriends. Family. They help but they aren't the answer to everyone. And so if she attempts to commit suicide again and is successful I would be deeply saddened but at least know that she found a peace that she couldn't find in life. Hell, even I experience that same lows. What is the point of having someone suffer through an existence which there is no solution that corrects the problem?
  - lupatus 15y ago
    Both depression/suicide and dietary habits run in families and reoccur over multiple generations. Low serum cholesterol has been shown to be a suicide risk factor. [1] Get you cholesterol tested and try adding more good fats to your diet like oily cold-water fish (think salmon and sardines), butter, eggs (including the yolk!), and coconut milk/oil. You should aim for a low LDL and a high HDL number. Anecdotally, have you ever seen how most teens and soldiers in the US eat? Their diets are low on good fats and high in bad carbohydrates that will send your cholesterol and triglyceride levels out-of-wack. A diet of Red Bull and Doritos will mess you up. [1] http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/evolutionary-psychiatry/201103/low-cholesterol-and-suicide http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/evolutionary-psychiatry/...

gujk 15y ago

The complication is that most life choices are to some extent reversible in case of mistake. Suicide is not, and therefore is subject to more delicate considetation. Also, for anyone not a hermit, suicide affects other people who may have moral or legal claims of dependency.

hellrich 15y ago

Your ability to make this decision would be impaired if you had a mental illness like depression.

ryan-allen 15y ago

Of course suicide isn't a mental illness. How about you have a look at some facts from the US NIMH [1], how about I summarise some poignant facts: "Research shows that risk factors for suicide include: depression and other mental disorders, or a substance-abuse disorder (often in combination with other mental disorders). More than 90 percent of people who die by suicide have these risk factors." So, you're happy to condemn 90% of people who commit suicide to go and 'make that choice' because 'it's their right'? I don't disagree that it's anyone's so-called 'right' to kill themselves, but when 90% of individuals who do so are suffering from mental illness or substance abuse disorders, I think it's far to broad and naive (not to mention downright heartless) to fob it off as a mere 'choice'. Have you known anyone personally who's comitted suicide? I bet that if someone close to you, whom was having a hard time (by stretch of the mind I wouldn't say it's too difficult to imagine in this economy, the loss of a job and a home could be a sufficient trigger for a Major Depressive Episode), decided to kill themselves over a temporary hardship. I doubt you'd merely say "well, it was their choice". I bet you'd rethink your statement and your position. You my friend are very wrong. [1] http://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/publications/suicide-in-the-us-statistics-and-prevention/index.shtml http://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/publications/suicide-in-the-u...

LancerSykera 15y ago
I never condemned anyone, nor did I say that I support suicide. What I support is the ability to choose freely the course of one's life. I'm curious to know what percentage of the general population suffers from mental and/or substance abuse disorders, in comparison with that 90%. And no, I have not known anyone personally who has killed themselves, at least not to the best of my knowledge. I do know, however, that I myself suffer from a number of "mental disorders" and at one point found myself a good bit suicidal. If someone close to me did kill themselves, of course I wouldn't just say "ah well," that's being unrealistic. I'd be just as affected by it as if they got hit by a bus. My views on death are much different than most, though, so regardless of the manner or intent, it wouldn't affect me anywhere near the same way as you. No position changed, you lose your bet.
thomasgerbe 15y ago
"Have you known anyone personally who's comitted suicide?" Yes. My cousin did by jumping and my sister attempted by overdose. Though I called an ambulance which saved her life. I won't argue that people shouldn't intervene when they can. 'I doubt you'd merely say "well, it was their choice". I bet you'd rethink your statement and your position.' Not really. She's gone through a lot of shit. Meds. Psychiatrist. Friends. Hobbies. Boyfriends. Family. They help but they aren't the answer to everyone. And so if she attempts to commit suicide again and is successful I would be deeply saddened but at least know that she found a peace that she couldn't find in life. Hell, even I experience that same lows. What is the point of having someone suffer through an existence which there is no solution that corrects the problem?
- lupatus 15y ago
  Both depression/suicide and dietary habits run in families and reoccur over multiple generations. Low serum cholesterol has been shown to be a suicide risk factor. [1] Get you cholesterol tested and try adding more good fats to your diet like oily cold-water fish (think salmon and sardines), butter, eggs (including the yolk!), and coconut milk/oil. You should aim for a low LDL and a high HDL number. Anecdotally, have you ever seen how most teens and soldiers in the US eat? Their diets are low on good fats and high in bad carbohydrates that will send your cholesterol and triglyceride levels out-of-wack. A diet of Red Bull and Doritos will mess you up. [1] http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/evolutionary-psychiatry/201103/low-cholesterol-and-suicide http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/evolutionary-psychiatry/...