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You mean I just imagined all those years post 2016 of democrats asserting “Russians stole the election” while wearing “not my president” tshirts? It seems like

You mean I just imagined all those years post 2016 of democrats asserting “Russians stole the election” while wearing “not my president” tshirts? It seems like both parties are just as bad on that front.

pydry 4y ago
At this point I view anybody who enthusiastically supports either of the parties as either naive or malicious.
- throwaway894345 4y ago
  Yeah, partisan politics are everything that is wrong with our country. It's just a big race to the bottom. "How dare you suggest my party needs to improve instead of fixating solely on The Other Party which is at least 1% worse than us (if you squint)". Too many people putting their party over their country; too much hatred between compatriots.
  - witcH 4y ago
    And then theres this faux-centrist meta hatred of strong opinions, and a general malaise of false equivalence. The Democrats and the Republicans are not the same. There is demonstrably one party that pushes a heavily moderate corporatist populist agenda and one party that pushes radical christian nationalist policies which a majority of the population is not in favor of, from a heavily gerrymandered and structurally unfair (the Dakotas have the same number of Senators as NY and CA, f.x.) political position carefully engineered since the advent of the Southern Strategy. Now, im not making a statement of 'correctness' vis a vis one side or the other, but if youre a woman or a person of color or queer in this country, The GOP policy platform is inherently hostile to your continued free existence. The hatred is flowing mostly from the right, and being enacted into law.
    - bena 4y ago
      Yes, we have a conservative party and a criminal party. We don't have a true progressive party. We are in the period of the cycle where political parties shift. As the Democratic-Republican party, Federalist party, Whig, Copperheads, Bull Moose, Know-Nothing, and others all got relegated to the dust bin of history, it is time for the political grounds to shift again.
    - throwaway894345 4y ago
      > And then theres this faux-centrist meta hatred of strong opinions I suspect you're conflating "hatred of strong opinions" with "hatred of people who prioritize their own radical ideology over the good of their country". I don't think many people hate strong opinions. > and a general malaise of false equivalence. The Democrats and the Republicans are not the same. No, but partisans are the same in that they both are willing to sacrifice the good of the country to see the other side lose on some token issue or another (pronouns, trans bathroom policies, etc). > pushes radical christian nationalist policies which a majority of the population No parties are pushing "Christian nationalist" policies. Whatever your position on abortion, banning it isn't "Christian nationalism". It's not an unreasonable position that human life (and thus human rights) begins before birth. There are some more extreme positions that are unpopular and hard to defend which the right pushes for (prohibiting abortions even when pregnancies are unviable or threaten the life of the mother) but there are also positions that are unpopular and hard to defend that the left pushes for (elective late term abortions). > from a heavily gerrymandered and structurally unfair (the Dakotas have the same number of Senators as NY and CA, f.x.) I think this is eminently fair, and without this the Dakotas would be steamrolled by the likes of NY and CA. Policies that make sense in NYC (restrictions on single family housing, car transportation, gun ownership, etc) would be forced on the rural states because they would be too irrelevant to worry about (why take the time to make sure policies work for the Dakotas when they are politically irrelevant?). > Now, im not making a statement of 'correctness' vis a vis one side or the other, but if youre a woman or a person of color or queer in this country, The GOP policy platform is inherently hostile to your continued free existence. I think this is patently absurd--I'm not a Republican nor have I ever voted for a Republican. However, it's not "hostile to people of color" for the GOP to stand with 80% of black Americans in opposition to de-policing policies which have driven the last decade's violent crime surge (which has disproportionately impacted black communities). Similarly, it's not "hostile to queer people" to pass a law which prohibits teaching sexuality ideology (whether left-wing gender ideology or "christian nationalist" ideology). This is precisely the problem with partisan politics--any attempt to improve the country that falls outside of your narrow ideology is defined in the worst terms ("if you don't support police abolition you're a genocidal white supremacist!", "if you support enforcing immigration policies, you're literally Hitler!", "if you think late term abortions should be illegal, you're a 'Christian nationalist' that hates women"). This is precisely the kind of extremist hatred that is swelling the ranks of the right.
epakai 4y ago
jscheel 4y ago
wollsmoth 4y ago
- throwaway894345 4y ago
  > The "not my president" stuff is pretty cringey and I didn't see it much even living in a major city. For better or worse, it was all over Chicago (and Twitter) circa 2016-2017.
  - wollsmoth 4y ago
    weird, didn't see it much around NYC.
    - throwaway894345 4y ago
      There was at least one "Not My President's Day" rally in NYC (10k-13k people in attendance), but I definitely don't know what the tone was or whether the slogan was common beyond that event. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Not_My_Presidents_Day#New_York https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Not_My_Presidents_Day#New_York
      - wollsmoth 4y ago
        Oh, yeah. I guess just don't really notice people wearing this stuff. Maybe a Bernie shirt here and there. I don't go to most rallies or protests. Most of us understood that Trump was indeed the president.
bengold14 4y ago
That's a ridiculous re-writing of history. Russia has documented interference in the election [1]. Also, most Democrats protesting not my president and stolen elections do so because Trump was elected while losing the popular vote. Republicans just made up lies and then tried a coup on democracy, that was just barely prevented by republicans with a backbone. It's crazy how close we came to dictatorship, helped enormously by people like you love to be contrarian and say "both sides" [1] https://www.fbi.gov/wanted/cyber/russian-interference-in-2016-u-s-elections https://www.fbi.gov/wanted/cyber/russian-interference-in-201...

pydry 4y ago

At this point I view anybody who enthusiastically supports either of the parties as either naive or malicious.

throwaway894345 4y ago
Yeah, partisan politics are everything that is wrong with our country. It's just a big race to the bottom. "How dare you suggest my party needs to improve instead of fixating solely on The Other Party which is at least 1% worse than us (if you squint)". Too many people putting their party over their country; too much hatred between compatriots.
- witcH 4y ago
  And then theres this faux-centrist meta hatred of strong opinions, and a general malaise of false equivalence. The Democrats and the Republicans are not the same. There is demonstrably one party that pushes a heavily moderate corporatist populist agenda and one party that pushes radical christian nationalist policies which a majority of the population is not in favor of, from a heavily gerrymandered and structurally unfair (the Dakotas have the same number of Senators as NY and CA, f.x.) political position carefully engineered since the advent of the Southern Strategy. Now, im not making a statement of 'correctness' vis a vis one side or the other, but if youre a woman or a person of color or queer in this country, The GOP policy platform is inherently hostile to your continued free existence. The hatred is flowing mostly from the right, and being enacted into law.
  - bena 4y ago
    Yes, we have a conservative party and a criminal party. We don't have a true progressive party. We are in the period of the cycle where political parties shift. As the Democratic-Republican party, Federalist party, Whig, Copperheads, Bull Moose, Know-Nothing, and others all got relegated to the dust bin of history, it is time for the political grounds to shift again.
  - throwaway894345 4y ago
    > And then theres this faux-centrist meta hatred of strong opinions I suspect you're conflating "hatred of strong opinions" with "hatred of people who prioritize their own radical ideology over the good of their country". I don't think many people hate strong opinions. > and a general malaise of false equivalence. The Democrats and the Republicans are not the same. No, but partisans are the same in that they both are willing to sacrifice the good of the country to see the other side lose on some token issue or another (pronouns, trans bathroom policies, etc). > pushes radical christian nationalist policies which a majority of the population No parties are pushing "Christian nationalist" policies. Whatever your position on abortion, banning it isn't "Christian nationalism". It's not an unreasonable position that human life (and thus human rights) begins before birth. There are some more extreme positions that are unpopular and hard to defend which the right pushes for (prohibiting abortions even when pregnancies are unviable or threaten the life of the mother) but there are also positions that are unpopular and hard to defend that the left pushes for (elective late term abortions). > from a heavily gerrymandered and structurally unfair (the Dakotas have the same number of Senators as NY and CA, f.x.) I think this is eminently fair, and without this the Dakotas would be steamrolled by the likes of NY and CA. Policies that make sense in NYC (restrictions on single family housing, car transportation, gun ownership, etc) would be forced on the rural states because they would be too irrelevant to worry about (why take the time to make sure policies work for the Dakotas when they are politically irrelevant?). > Now, im not making a statement of 'correctness' vis a vis one side or the other, but if youre a woman or a person of color or queer in this country, The GOP policy platform is inherently hostile to your continued free existence. I think this is patently absurd--I'm not a Republican nor have I ever voted for a Republican. However, it's not "hostile to people of color" for the GOP to stand with 80% of black Americans in opposition to de-policing policies which have driven the last decade's violent crime surge (which has disproportionately impacted black communities). Similarly, it's not "hostile to queer people" to pass a law which prohibits teaching sexuality ideology (whether left-wing gender ideology or "christian nationalist" ideology). This is precisely the problem with partisan politics--any attempt to improve the country that falls outside of your narrow ideology is defined in the worst terms ("if you don't support police abolition you're a genocidal white supremacist!", "if you support enforcing immigration policies, you're literally Hitler!", "if you think late term abortions should be illegal, you're a 'Christian nationalist' that hates women"). This is precisely the kind of extremist hatred that is swelling the ranks of the right.

epakai 4y ago

jscheel 4y ago

wollsmoth 4y ago

throwaway894345 4y ago
> The "not my president" stuff is pretty cringey and I didn't see it much even living in a major city. For better or worse, it was all over Chicago (and Twitter) circa 2016-2017.
- wollsmoth 4y ago
  weird, didn't see it much around NYC.
  - throwaway894345 4y ago
    There was at least one "Not My President's Day" rally in NYC (10k-13k people in attendance), but I definitely don't know what the tone was or whether the slogan was common beyond that event. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Not_My_Presidents_Day#New_York https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Not_My_Presidents_Day#New_York
    - wollsmoth 4y ago
      Oh, yeah. I guess just don't really notice people wearing this stuff. Maybe a Bernie shirt here and there. I don't go to most rallies or protests. Most of us understood that Trump was indeed the president.

bengold14 4y ago

That's a ridiculous re-writing of history. Russia has documented interference in the election [1]. Also, most Democrats protesting not my president and stolen elections do so because Trump was elected while losing the popular vote. Republicans just made up lies and then tried a coup on democracy, that was just barely prevented by republicans with a backbone. It's crazy how close we came to dictatorship, helped enormously by people like you love to be contrarian and say "both sides" [1] https://www.fbi.gov/wanted/cyber/russian-interference-in-2016-u-s-elections https://www.fbi.gov/wanted/cyber/russian-interference-in-201...