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Amen. Now we just need to take the next logical step into balkanization and we can start making real progress. I have no right voting for federal candidates in

Amen. Now we just need to take the next logical step into balkanization and we can start making real progress. I have no right voting for federal candidates in my midwest region that can influence legislation that impacts new york, and vice versa. Regionality > Nationality tl;dr america is geographically too big and it's really starting to show.

pfisch 4y ago
This would result in worse economic conditions for everyone. Just look at brexit.
- albatross13 4y ago
  Fine by me- my state grows its own food (both meat and vegetables), exports plenty, and is sparsely populated. I reckon we'd be fine. True to the OP's point: I don't really care what happens to the east/west coasts. These people have been trying to legislate my rights away for decades now, so I am very apathetic to their plights.
  - giardini 4y ago
    I understand the sentiment and I hear your statement but all of us trade with those "other" places (the "east/west coasts") and most of us have friends in those places, too. You know too that, in your heart of hearts, your very humanity would pull you to help were something catastrophic to happen to those places. We're all in the same boat and we have learned the value of rowing together versus throwing others overboard. If that means sometimes you eat crow and other times you serve it up, so be it. I too wish there were more on the menu than crow, but that's why we have scientists: perhaps our grandchildren can eat lobster.
    - albatross13 4y ago
      I fail to see how we couldn't continue to trade with the overreach of the federal government eliminated- why couldn't the midwest region still sell beef to the coastal regions? We've all been duped into believing we need a federal government to maintain what we have, and I very strongly believe we do not. Shit, I would wager that whatever 'economic' distress balkanization would cause could quickly be recouped by the simple fact that we no longer have the feds taking 15-30% of our paychecks and then sending it over seas to eastern europe or israel.
      - amanaplanacanal 4y ago
        Without that federal government, most of the black folks in the US might still be slaves. We probably shouldn’t forget all the history that got us to where we are today.
      - giardini 4y ago
        You seem to believe that if the federal government disappears then no other entity will take it's place. This is incorrect. Even balkanized countries have levels of governments. In the scenario you envision, the role of the federal government would pass to some other new entity and you'd still be paying taxes or worse. Reason is, if you don't have some government then you cannot protect your property and yourself simultaneously. A local warlord or landowner or one from an adjacent state might take your land. A neighboring state might invade your state. Who would protect you? What rights would you have? What court system would you use to gain redress?
Clubber 4y ago
>Now we just need to take the next logical step into balkanization That was the original design with much power belonging to the states. The federal government has gained a lot of power over the last century or so. We're seeing the effects of centralized power over a large and diverse population. Also, many people want the government to solve problems at the federal level, having little to no understanding that other people in other states live their lives very differently and have different priorities.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- misterprime 4y ago
  I'd love to see a change where the federal government was no longer allowed to tax individual citizens (or companies?). Taxation should be done by their State of residence/employment, and the Federal government can tax the State. I'm not sure what else could be abstracted this way so that the citizen wouldn't interact so directly with the federal government. Things like the DoE, and HUD, could probably be eliminated while things like the FDA and EPA really should have federal reach to execute their missions properly (not that they're really doing that).
juve1996 4y ago
Middle america would be devastated by this move. The coasts + Texas would be overwhelmingly rich vs the poor flyover country states.
- albatross13 4y ago
  Life finds a way :)
- kortilla 4y ago
  That’s an uninformed meme: https://www.statista.com/statistics/248063/per-capita-us-real-gross-domestic-product-gdp-by-state/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/248063/per-capita-us-rea...
  - juve1996 4y ago
    Your statistics are a decade old - in the meantime California continued to climb, there's updated numbers. The fact that a state that huge is competitive in GDP per capita with extremely tiny flyover states, is extremely telling.
    - Clubber 4y ago
      California also has a massive homeless population and one of the worse police states in the country, and that's saying something. But hey, a small percentage are really rich!
      - deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
    - albatross13 4y ago
      That just means the rich elite of facebook could use their money to buy mid western meat for the people :D
      - juve1996 4y ago
mbg721 4y ago
If the US balkanizes, it won't be geographically tidy. Voters in urban areas in the Midwest are much more left-leaning than say, upstate NY.
- albatross13 4y ago
  Aye- plus I don't know how we'd handle the military and keep established national boarders. It's mostly a pipe dream of mine. Realistically we'll just continue to limp along, a zombiefied husk of what our country was meant to be, until the banks and tech elite have bled us dry. Then we'll likely just implode. Tis the fate of many an empire.

pfisch 4y ago

This would result in worse economic conditions for everyone. Just look at brexit.

albatross13 4y ago
Fine by me- my state grows its own food (both meat and vegetables), exports plenty, and is sparsely populated. I reckon we'd be fine. True to the OP's point: I don't really care what happens to the east/west coasts. These people have been trying to legislate my rights away for decades now, so I am very apathetic to their plights.
- giardini 4y ago
  I understand the sentiment and I hear your statement but all of us trade with those "other" places (the "east/west coasts") and most of us have friends in those places, too. You know too that, in your heart of hearts, your very humanity would pull you to help were something catastrophic to happen to those places. We're all in the same boat and we have learned the value of rowing together versus throwing others overboard. If that means sometimes you eat crow and other times you serve it up, so be it. I too wish there were more on the menu than crow, but that's why we have scientists: perhaps our grandchildren can eat lobster.
  - albatross13 4y ago
    I fail to see how we couldn't continue to trade with the overreach of the federal government eliminated- why couldn't the midwest region still sell beef to the coastal regions? We've all been duped into believing we need a federal government to maintain what we have, and I very strongly believe we do not. Shit, I would wager that whatever 'economic' distress balkanization would cause could quickly be recouped by the simple fact that we no longer have the feds taking 15-30% of our paychecks and then sending it over seas to eastern europe or israel.
    - amanaplanacanal 4y ago
      Without that federal government, most of the black folks in the US might still be slaves. We probably shouldn’t forget all the history that got us to where we are today.
    - giardini 4y ago
      You seem to believe that if the federal government disappears then no other entity will take it's place. This is incorrect. Even balkanized countries have levels of governments. In the scenario you envision, the role of the federal government would pass to some other new entity and you'd still be paying taxes or worse. Reason is, if you don't have some government then you cannot protect your property and yourself simultaneously. A local warlord or landowner or one from an adjacent state might take your land. A neighboring state might invade your state. Who would protect you? What rights would you have? What court system would you use to gain redress?

Clubber 4y ago

>Now we just need to take the next logical step into balkanization That was the original design with much power belonging to the states. The federal government has gained a lot of power over the last century or so. We're seeing the effects of centralized power over a large and diverse population. Also, many people want the government to solve problems at the federal level, having little to no understanding that other people in other states live their lives very differently and have different priorities.

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
misterprime 4y ago
I'd love to see a change where the federal government was no longer allowed to tax individual citizens (or companies?). Taxation should be done by their State of residence/employment, and the Federal government can tax the State. I'm not sure what else could be abstracted this way so that the citizen wouldn't interact so directly with the federal government. Things like the DoE, and HUD, could probably be eliminated while things like the FDA and EPA really should have federal reach to execute their missions properly (not that they're really doing that).

juve1996 4y ago

Middle america would be devastated by this move. The coasts + Texas would be overwhelmingly rich vs the poor flyover country states.

albatross13 4y ago
Life finds a way :)
kortilla 4y ago
That’s an uninformed meme: https://www.statista.com/statistics/248063/per-capita-us-real-gross-domestic-product-gdp-by-state/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/248063/per-capita-us-rea...
- juve1996 4y ago
  Your statistics are a decade old - in the meantime California continued to climb, there's updated numbers. The fact that a state that huge is competitive in GDP per capita with extremely tiny flyover states, is extremely telling.
  - Clubber 4y ago
    California also has a massive homeless population and one of the worse police states in the country, and that's saying something. But hey, a small percentage are really rich!
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
  - albatross13 4y ago
    That just means the rich elite of facebook could use their money to buy mid western meat for the people :D
    - juve1996 4y ago

mbg721 4y ago

If the US balkanizes, it won't be geographically tidy. Voters in urban areas in the Midwest are much more left-leaning than say, upstate NY.

albatross13 4y ago
Aye- plus I don't know how we'd handle the military and keep established national boarders. It's mostly a pipe dream of mine. Realistically we'll just continue to limp along, a zombiefied husk of what our country was meant to be, until the banks and tech elite have bled us dry. Then we'll likely just implode. Tis the fate of many an empire.