6 ms·

It's simple, much of Europe has already figured this out. Pay PhD students appropriately, and give them full benefits. The idea that they are only contributing

It's simple, much of Europe has already figured this out. Pay PhD students appropriately, and give them full benefits. The idea that they are only contributing work worth the equivalent of minimum wage in the US is completely absurd and ensures only students with particularly forgiving attitudes or ones from wealthy backgrounds can reasonably complete PhDs here. I recently saw PhD stipends at UNC Chapel Hill advertised at 20000 per year and this comes with virtually 0 benefits which for a major research university is frankly shameful. University of Amsterdam for example: "Included Benefits: University of Amsterdam PhD candidates are fully-funded for four years and earn competitive salaries. The salary will be in accordance with the University regulations for academic personnel, and will range from €2,325 to €2,972 (salary scale P) gross per month. This is excl. 8% holiday allowance and 8,3% end of year bonus. The Collective Labour Agreement for Dutch Universities is applicable. Additional comprehensive benefits include paid vacation, sick leave, disability insurance, maternity and parental leave and pension contribution. The mandatory Dutch health insurance is not included, but is very affordable (~€100 per month). Relocation costs (within reason) will also be reimbursed."

Fomite 4y ago
I did my PhD at UNC Chapel Hill. I was able to live without debt, pay for flights to see my (at the time) long distance girlfriend, and I got medical insurance when I needed it. The dental plan was indeed appallingly bad.
light_hue_1 4y ago
> It's simple, much of Europe has already figured this out. Pay PhD students appropriately, and give them full benefits. The EU is in many ways worse. You have the same problem except that your PhD is worth much less. PhD students in the EU make less than students in the US! And virtually all of them in the US get full benefits. You just said good salary, and listed University of Amsterdam as offering 27900-35000 per year. At UNC, minimums are: bio $33k, chemistry $28k, CS $25k. And North Carolina is far cheaper than Amsterdam. PhDs in the EU live often in much more expensive areas and make less than PhD students in the US.
- adamsmith143 4y ago
  >The EU is in many ways worse. You have the same problem except that your PhD is worth much less. This is debatable. >PhD students in the EU make less than students in the US! And virtually all of them in the US get full benefits. This is completely false. The absolute highest stipends in the US are at places like Stanford or Columbia and even then only reach something like 45000 per year and both Palo Alto and NYC are much more expensive than Amsterdam. They also do not receive anywhere near the same benefits as in UVA. >You just said good salary, and listed University of Amsterdam as offering 27900-35000 per year. With +16% in bonuses, paid vacations, paid sick days, etc. With bonus the salary is 32364-40600 Which is more than 90% of US stipends. >At UNC, minimums are: bio $33k, chemistry $28k, CS $25k. And North Carolina is far cheaper than Amsterdam. Also false. I encourage you to do the math for yourself but Amsterdam is about as expensive to live in as Chapel Hill. https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/compare_cities.jsp?country1=United+States&country2=Netherlands&city1=Chapel+Hill%2C+NC&city2=Amsterdam https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/compare_cities.jsp?cou... Also the stipends in Netherlands are more or less the same across the country so at Utrecht, Maastricht, Leiden etc. which are much less expensive than Amsterdam. >PhDs in the EU live often in much more expensive areas and make less than PhD students in the US. This just isn't supported by the data.
  - light_hue_1 4y ago
    >> PhD students in the EU make less than students in the US! And virtually all of them in the US get full benefits. > This is completely false. Then you don't know the US system. As evidenced by the fact that you say: > With +16% in bonuses, paid vacations, paid sick days, etc. With bonus the salary is 32364-40600 Which is more than 90% of US stipends. Every PhD student at every university I've ever seen has paid vacation, paid sick days, etc. Conference travel all around the world, at levels that EU universities can't match. As a PhD student my program basically paid for vacations in: China, 4 different EU countries, 5-6 different US states + Hawaii + Alaska, Japan, etc. There are plenty of bonuses and perks. > The absolute highest stipends in the US ... They also do not receive anywhere near the same benefits as in UVA. I'm at one of these places. In terms of benefits, we far outstrip the EU. The flexibility we have to spend money on travel, equipment, perks, is incomparable. But let's take a step back. You started by saying that this problem is solved in the EU and now you backtracked to arguing about +/-10% salary. Big deal. The EU is expensive, it pays poorly. You want to argue the US is a little worse. But your statement that this problem is solved in the EU couldn't be further from the truth.
borroka 4y ago
When did my PhD in a Southern European country -- I completed it 15 years ago -- I was getting 800 euros a month after taxes. Right now, PhD students get no more than 1000 euros a month after taxes. It is peanuts, difficult to live on that salary, almost impossible to have a family. Difficult to say if it is too little or too much, on the one hand it is a student position, on the other we are talking about skilled graduates with possible important contributions to offer.

Fomite 4y ago

I did my PhD at UNC Chapel Hill. I was able to live without debt, pay for flights to see my (at the time) long distance girlfriend, and I got medical insurance when I needed it. The dental plan was indeed appallingly bad.

light_hue_1 4y ago

> It's simple, much of Europe has already figured this out. Pay PhD students appropriately, and give them full benefits. The EU is in many ways worse. You have the same problem except that your PhD is worth much less. PhD students in the EU make less than students in the US! And virtually all of them in the US get full benefits. You just said good salary, and listed University of Amsterdam as offering 27900-35000 per year. At UNC, minimums are: bio $33k, chemistry $28k, CS $25k. And North Carolina is far cheaper than Amsterdam. PhDs in the EU live often in much more expensive areas and make less than PhD students in the US.

adamsmith143 4y ago
>The EU is in many ways worse. You have the same problem except that your PhD is worth much less. This is debatable. >PhD students in the EU make less than students in the US! And virtually all of them in the US get full benefits. This is completely false. The absolute highest stipends in the US are at places like Stanford or Columbia and even then only reach something like 45000 per year and both Palo Alto and NYC are much more expensive than Amsterdam. They also do not receive anywhere near the same benefits as in UVA. >You just said good salary, and listed University of Amsterdam as offering 27900-35000 per year. With +16% in bonuses, paid vacations, paid sick days, etc. With bonus the salary is 32364-40600 Which is more than 90% of US stipends. >At UNC, minimums are: bio $33k, chemistry $28k, CS $25k. And North Carolina is far cheaper than Amsterdam. Also false. I encourage you to do the math for yourself but Amsterdam is about as expensive to live in as Chapel Hill. https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/compare_cities.jsp?country1=United+States&country2=Netherlands&city1=Chapel+Hill%2C+NC&city2=Amsterdam https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/compare_cities.jsp?cou... Also the stipends in Netherlands are more or less the same across the country so at Utrecht, Maastricht, Leiden etc. which are much less expensive than Amsterdam. >PhDs in the EU live often in much more expensive areas and make less than PhD students in the US. This just isn't supported by the data.
- light_hue_1 4y ago
  >> PhD students in the EU make less than students in the US! And virtually all of them in the US get full benefits. > This is completely false. Then you don't know the US system. As evidenced by the fact that you say: > With +16% in bonuses, paid vacations, paid sick days, etc. With bonus the salary is 32364-40600 Which is more than 90% of US stipends. Every PhD student at every university I've ever seen has paid vacation, paid sick days, etc. Conference travel all around the world, at levels that EU universities can't match. As a PhD student my program basically paid for vacations in: China, 4 different EU countries, 5-6 different US states + Hawaii + Alaska, Japan, etc. There are plenty of bonuses and perks. > The absolute highest stipends in the US ... They also do not receive anywhere near the same benefits as in UVA. I'm at one of these places. In terms of benefits, we far outstrip the EU. The flexibility we have to spend money on travel, equipment, perks, is incomparable. But let's take a step back. You started by saying that this problem is solved in the EU and now you backtracked to arguing about +/-10% salary. Big deal. The EU is expensive, it pays poorly. You want to argue the US is a little worse. But your statement that this problem is solved in the EU couldn't be further from the truth.

borroka 4y ago

When did my PhD in a Southern European country -- I completed it 15 years ago -- I was getting 800 euros a month after taxes. Right now, PhD students get no more than 1000 euros a month after taxes. It is peanuts, difficult to live on that salary, almost impossible to have a family. Difficult to say if it is too little or too much, on the one hand it is a student position, on the other we are talking about skilled graduates with possible important contributions to offer.