10 ms·

It's just a video app, exercise some self-discipline and self-accountability and uninstall the app.

Sparkle-san 4y ago
They clearly did uninstall it but "use some some-discipline" is pretty disingenuous given companies are abusing biological mechanisms to get people hooked on their apps. This is especially true for teenagers who are underdeveloped in the self-discipline department.
- system16 4y ago
  Replace TikTok with food, porn, or drugs. At some point the individual has to take responsibility for their actions and seek support if it's something they can't do on their own. Or we just ban everything.
  - hiq 4y ago
    I'm not sure what your point is, we do ban some of these (with various successes and failures), so why wouldn't we do the same for social media? Yes we shouldn't ban everything, but there's a large spectrum of acceptable regulations with different tradeoffs and it's fine to discuss what your society wants in that regard instead of precluding any kind of regulation.
    - system16 4y ago
      TikTok is not as harmful as drugs (at least I haven't seen anyone end up on skid row over watching too many dancing videos). So if it's to be regulated it would likely be similar to porn or gambling and be age restricted. OP is clearly an adult capable of making their own decisions, so this regulation wouldn't help them. So what is your point?
      - hiq 4y ago
        In many countries gambling regulations go beyond age restrictions and companies evolving in that space have to provide safeguards to prevent certain behaviors. I don't think it's far-fetched to imagine similar regulations for things like social media, at least it's a real possibility that exists before simply banning everything.
  - jamincan 4y ago
    There is such a thing as shared responsibility. An individual smoker is responsible for quitting; Phillip Morris is responsible for making a harmful and addictive product. In the case of social media, individuals are responsible for how they use them, but Facebook/Tiktok/Twitter are also responsible for building apps that encourage overuse.
data_ders 4y ago
Commenter: “I have (insert DSMV behavioral condition) and it makes having X with Y extremely difficult” You: “It’s just Y, have X. Problem solved”
j245 4y ago
Let me guess, the solution to ending world hunger is.. It’s just hunger, use your wallet, just go buy some food and eat it.
jrm4 4y ago
Great if you're able to do that easily. Please understand that some of the most brilliant minds in the world get up in the morning usually somewhere in California, and work many hours in the day, and their literal job is to figure out how to subvert this.
- twayt 4y ago
  The greatest trick they pulled is convincing people like you that you have no personal autonomy. It’s one thing to show you stimulating content once you open the app but it’s a whole another level of self-deception to convince yourself that you can’t prevent yourself from opening the app.
- raverbashing 4y ago
  reminds me that "the greatest minds at 1600 Amphitheater Parkway" made it harder to open your list of apps on Play Store but never mind Open the list, select 'TikTok' and click 'Uninstall' This is not to be demeaning. But if you're having too much trouble disconnecting from it, then that should be the way. You can still see videos in a browser.
  - jrm4 4y ago
    Preaching to the choir here, I don't do any social media on my phone at all. But still, kind of unhelpful. What do we do about them?
  - SinParadise 4y ago
    this is the personal responsibility or bootstraps argument in a poorly made sheep's clothing.
  - nextaccountic 4y ago
    It's addictive. Many users don't uninstall because they are addicted, and the social media companies exploit this for profit.
- TechBro8615 4y ago
  Unfortunately regulations will always be one step behind. Asking for them is victim mentality. We’re responsible for our own choices. Everyone might get addicted to TikTok for some period. But everyone needn’t stay addicted to TikTok. (Of course I use “TikTok” as a placeholder for any infinitely consumable feed of targeted content.) Regulation has a place. For example, an obvious and easy win would be to pass a bill requiring any product with a consumable feed to offer and default to an option to sort it in reverse chronological order. But regulation is a reactive and slow strategy to shrinking a problem that continues to metastasize. There are more proactive social strategies available to us. Education is free. Self-control is free. Unfortunately, they’re only “free” modulo the minutes of attention we can allocate to them from our finite lifetime supply. I wonder, how many minutes of education or self-introspection is required to prevent one future minute of app usage? I’m optimistic this ratio is favorable, so that once people sufficiently internalize the effect of infinite consumable feeds, they will naturally reduce their self-sabotaging usage of them. People will adapt. It will just take a while. Sometimes you gotta get burned to learn not to touch the stove. In the meantime, we could require the products to provide resources and tools to reduce addiction (like HN’s noprocrast). And we should also find a way to blunt the impact of social media on those who have not yet begun their journey with its addiction (like children, or people yet to be born into our satirical dystopia of a society). If kids are glamorizing social media before they are old enough to use it, they will not have an easy experience separating themselves from it later in life. Cigarette smoking rates are way down since twenty years ago when we started convincing children it was gross and uncool. We can do that with social media too.
selykg 4y ago
It's just poker, show some self-discipline and self-accountability and uninstall the app!
jjoonathan 4y ago
They did.
cinntaile 4y ago
Imagine something you have struggled with for a very long time. Now apply (the spirit of) your reply. Good luck, I hope it helps!
moolcool 4y ago
Some of the brightest minds in the world work tirelessly to develop impossibly advanced algorithms which exploit our monkey-brains' attention mechanisms. It's scary to me that there's people working in the tech industry who would upvote a comment like this-- it shows a lack of respect for the level of power software engineers possess over real people's lives.
lghh 4y ago
Exercise some self-discipline and read what I wrote. I did uninstall it.
- root_axis 4y ago
  Yes, I read that, I am speaking in the general sense with respect to remarks such as "it feels like they are making a real attempt to take my agency" and "I feel like I am intentionally being taken advantage of by TikTok". I can see why that's not clear though, so fair critique. I understand you literally removed the app from your phone, but framing yourself as hapless prey without any agency negates the ethos of self accountability and self discipline.
  - lghh 4y ago
    I am not hapless. However I do have a mental disability that makes me especially susceptible to the psychological tricks (and they are tricks) that TikTok employs to keep people scrolling. The fact that I was born with ADHD and can't get rid of it, even if I can curb it, does reduce some of my agency by definition. It sucks, but it's the truth.
deepGem 4y ago
I don't use TikTok but even in my mid 40s fell victim to Instagram reels. What's astonishing to me is that I have a level of self control that's way more than the average individual (for instance I have taken cold showers for ever).Even with such an otherwise resilience I fell victim to Instagram reels and their infinite supply of mindless entertainment. It took a week for me to unshackle and get rid of this imbecile nonsense. I still have the app on my phone but am actively not opening it. My hypothesis is that if you can do this for a continued duration, then the existence of the app won't bother you. You can't go around deleting everything from your life. You lead your life on your terms, despite the distractions. So the addictive forces are quite powerful and for the average individual, it's really hard to get out of this addiction.
A4ET8a8uTh0 4y ago
Yes and no. I mean, you are correct in a very abstract way, but there is something to be said for an industry that is able to manipulate a large swath of the population by exploiting various human predilections. Saying it is just self-discipline and accountability is limiting the conversation to a frame that benefits those companies without looking at the totality of the reasons behind it.
dwaltrip 4y ago
It’s just a bottle of liquid, exercise some self-discipline and don’t drink it.
- bequanna 4y ago
  I think that comparison makes the opposite point that you intended. The answer to treating alcoholism actually is some amount of personal responsibility and strengthening of willpower, not blaming the companies that manufacture alcohol.
- root_axis 4y ago
  If an alcoholic goes around making pronunciations about how they lack agency and how they feel like bars are victimizing them, they will be sternly told to exercise some self-discipline and self-accountability at a minimum, likely they will also be told to check into rehab. Imagine if, guided by your analogy, I were to have instead replied to the OP with "check yourself into rehab". Most likely, I'd have been downvoted for snark, because everyone understands a sequence of entertaining videos is a different kind of thing than a drug which you ingest and become physically dependent on.

They clearly did uninstall it but "use some some-discipline" is pretty disingenuous given companies are abusing biological mechanisms to get people hooked on their apps. This is especially true for teenagers who are underdeveloped in the self-discipline department.

system16 4y ago
Replace TikTok with food, porn, or drugs. At some point the individual has to take responsibility for their actions and seek support if it's something they can't do on their own. Or we just ban everything.
- hiq 4y ago
  I'm not sure what your point is, we do ban some of these (with various successes and failures), so why wouldn't we do the same for social media? Yes we shouldn't ban everything, but there's a large spectrum of acceptable regulations with different tradeoffs and it's fine to discuss what your society wants in that regard instead of precluding any kind of regulation.
  - system16 4y ago
    TikTok is not as harmful as drugs (at least I haven't seen anyone end up on skid row over watching too many dancing videos). So if it's to be regulated it would likely be similar to porn or gambling and be age restricted. OP is clearly an adult capable of making their own decisions, so this regulation wouldn't help them. So what is your point?
    - hiq 4y ago
      In many countries gambling regulations go beyond age restrictions and companies evolving in that space have to provide safeguards to prevent certain behaviors. I don't think it's far-fetched to imagine similar regulations for things like social media, at least it's a real possibility that exists before simply banning everything.
- jamincan 4y ago
  There is such a thing as shared responsibility. An individual smoker is responsible for quitting; Phillip Morris is responsible for making a harmful and addictive product. In the case of social media, individuals are responsible for how they use them, but Facebook/Tiktok/Twitter are also responsible for building apps that encourage overuse.

data_ders 4y ago

Commenter: “I have (insert DSMV behavioral condition) and it makes having X with Y extremely difficult” You: “It’s just Y, have X. Problem solved”

j245 4y ago

Let me guess, the solution to ending world hunger is.. It’s just hunger, use your wallet, just go buy some food and eat it.

jrm4 4y ago

Great if you're able to do that easily. Please understand that some of the most brilliant minds in the world get up in the morning usually somewhere in California, and work many hours in the day, and their literal job is to figure out how to subvert this.

twayt 4y ago
The greatest trick they pulled is convincing people like you that you have no personal autonomy. It’s one thing to show you stimulating content once you open the app but it’s a whole another level of self-deception to convince yourself that you can’t prevent yourself from opening the app.
raverbashing 4y ago
reminds me that "the greatest minds at 1600 Amphitheater Parkway" made it harder to open your list of apps on Play Store but never mind Open the list, select 'TikTok' and click 'Uninstall' This is not to be demeaning. But if you're having too much trouble disconnecting from it, then that should be the way. You can still see videos in a browser.
- jrm4 4y ago
  Preaching to the choir here, I don't do any social media on my phone at all. But still, kind of unhelpful. What do we do about them?
- SinParadise 4y ago
  this is the personal responsibility or bootstraps argument in a poorly made sheep's clothing.
- nextaccountic 4y ago
  It's addictive. Many users don't uninstall because they are addicted, and the social media companies exploit this for profit.
TechBro8615 4y ago
Unfortunately regulations will always be one step behind. Asking for them is victim mentality. We’re responsible for our own choices. Everyone might get addicted to TikTok for some period. But everyone needn’t stay addicted to TikTok. (Of course I use “TikTok” as a placeholder for any infinitely consumable feed of targeted content.) Regulation has a place. For example, an obvious and easy win would be to pass a bill requiring any product with a consumable feed to offer and default to an option to sort it in reverse chronological order. But regulation is a reactive and slow strategy to shrinking a problem that continues to metastasize. There are more proactive social strategies available to us. Education is free. Self-control is free. Unfortunately, they’re only “free” modulo the minutes of attention we can allocate to them from our finite lifetime supply. I wonder, how many minutes of education or self-introspection is required to prevent one future minute of app usage? I’m optimistic this ratio is favorable, so that once people sufficiently internalize the effect of infinite consumable feeds, they will naturally reduce their self-sabotaging usage of them. People will adapt. It will just take a while. Sometimes you gotta get burned to learn not to touch the stove. In the meantime, we could require the products to provide resources and tools to reduce addiction (like HN’s noprocrast). And we should also find a way to blunt the impact of social media on those who have not yet begun their journey with its addiction (like children, or people yet to be born into our satirical dystopia of a society). If kids are glamorizing social media before they are old enough to use it, they will not have an easy experience separating themselves from it later in life. Cigarette smoking rates are way down since twenty years ago when we started convincing children it was gross and uncool. We can do that with social media too.

selykg 4y ago

It's just poker, show some self-discipline and self-accountability and uninstall the app!

jjoonathan 4y ago

They did.

cinntaile 4y ago

Imagine something you have struggled with for a very long time. Now apply (the spirit of) your reply. Good luck, I hope it helps!

moolcool 4y ago

Some of the brightest minds in the world work tirelessly to develop impossibly advanced algorithms which exploit our monkey-brains' attention mechanisms. It's scary to me that there's people working in the tech industry who would upvote a comment like this-- it shows a lack of respect for the level of power software engineers possess over real people's lives.

lghh 4y ago

Exercise some self-discipline and read what I wrote. I did uninstall it.

root_axis 4y ago
Yes, I read that, I am speaking in the general sense with respect to remarks such as "it feels like they are making a real attempt to take my agency" and "I feel like I am intentionally being taken advantage of by TikTok". I can see why that's not clear though, so fair critique. I understand you literally removed the app from your phone, but framing yourself as hapless prey without any agency negates the ethos of self accountability and self discipline.
- lghh 4y ago
  I am not hapless. However I do have a mental disability that makes me especially susceptible to the psychological tricks (and they are tricks) that TikTok employs to keep people scrolling. The fact that I was born with ADHD and can't get rid of it, even if I can curb it, does reduce some of my agency by definition. It sucks, but it's the truth.

deepGem 4y ago

I don't use TikTok but even in my mid 40s fell victim to Instagram reels. What's astonishing to me is that I have a level of self control that's way more than the average individual (for instance I have taken cold showers for ever).Even with such an otherwise resilience I fell victim to Instagram reels and their infinite supply of mindless entertainment. It took a week for me to unshackle and get rid of this imbecile nonsense. I still have the app on my phone but am actively not opening it. My hypothesis is that if you can do this for a continued duration, then the existence of the app won't bother you. You can't go around deleting everything from your life. You lead your life on your terms, despite the distractions. So the addictive forces are quite powerful and for the average individual, it's really hard to get out of this addiction.

A4ET8a8uTh0 4y ago

Yes and no. I mean, you are correct in a very abstract way, but there is something to be said for an industry that is able to manipulate a large swath of the population by exploiting various human predilections. Saying it is just self-discipline and accountability is limiting the conversation to a frame that benefits those companies without looking at the totality of the reasons behind it.

dwaltrip 4y ago

It’s just a bottle of liquid, exercise some self-discipline and don’t drink it.

bequanna 4y ago
I think that comparison makes the opposite point that you intended. The answer to treating alcoholism actually is some amount of personal responsibility and strengthening of willpower, not blaming the companies that manufacture alcohol.
root_axis 4y ago
If an alcoholic goes around making pronunciations about how they lack agency and how they feel like bars are victimizing them, they will be sternly told to exercise some self-discipline and self-accountability at a minimum, likely they will also be told to check into rehab. Imagine if, guided by your analogy, I were to have instead replied to the OP with "check yourself into rehab". Most likely, I'd have been downvoted for snark, because everyone understands a sequence of entertaining videos is a different kind of thing than a drug which you ingest and become physically dependent on.