3 ms·

Machine learning probably had something to do with it. It notices videos with thumbnails of people with their mouths and eyes wide open doing some kind of shock

Machine learning probably had something to do with it. It notices videos with thumbnails of people with their mouths and eyes wide open doing some kind of shocked expression with red arrows pointing to something perform better than average. Then it starts recommending videos with thumbnails like this preferentially. YouTubers take notice and start producing thumbnails like this for every video. Go to the front page right now with clean cookies and you'll see most of the thumbnails have "reaction faces" in them for no apparent reason, usually pulling some kind of exaggerated expression. Clickbait used to mean that you baited the viewer into clicking, now it means you baited the algorithm into recommending you.

technion 4y ago
When I was playing WoW, it was hard to find, for example, "guide to blackwing lair". It would be way down the page, below videos always titled "shocked reaction to Blackwing lair boss kill", "streamer reacts to BWL speedrun".
- elevatortrim 4y ago
  I think that’s an issue with the monetisation. People who needs a specific guide would be relatively small in numbers. Unless your video is watched by tens/hundreds of thousands, it is not worth making (unless for hobby). Content creators are feeling like they need to make the title and image appealing to a wide audience rather than people looking for something specific. The search engine should prioritise videos matching your specific search so you can find what you are looking for from hobbyist creators but I’m not sure if that’s happening.
- JasserInicide 4y ago
  That shit is the fucking worst. 10 results down it gives you the "People also watched" and "For You" categories before it resumes listing what you fucking searched for. Can you imagine 20 years ago trying to build a search engine and explaining that you should insert search results that people didn't fucking search for?
ilamont 4y ago
Yes. Canva even has templates for clickbait, including "passive income" scams which have taken over YouTube. https://www.canva.com/p/templates/EAFBCRpOy3g-yellow-black-earn-money-youtube-thumbnail/ https://www.canva.com/p/templates/EAFBCRpOy3g-yellow-black-e...
mrweasel 4y ago
There was a Linus Tech Tips video where he admits that it's stupid, but sadly it works really well. It's a bit like when Wikipedia kept using Jimmy Wales' face in banners requesting donations. People claim to not like it, yet it's was what got the highest conversion rates.
- GLGirty 4y ago
  Gawd those haunting eyes... I wonder how many people donated just to make them stop.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
- dereg 4y ago
  This is a clear example of penny-wise but pound-foolish. At no point in a product's lifetime does should machine learning obviate the need for good taste.
  - Balgair 4y ago
    I'm not going to argue that, but that ship sailed back in ~2014. All the FAANGs do live A/B testing like this.
    - dereg 4y ago
      2014 lines up with my memory of when YT recommendations, among many things, started to change for the worse. On a side note, wow. I can’t believe that 8 years have already passed. It feels like yesterday that people were actively debating these topics here on HN.
- alexpotato 4y ago
  Patrick McKenzie (aka patio11 here) had a post/talk about how when he was working with FogBugz they realized that people LOVE to watch Joel Spolsky talk. In fact, A/B testing showed that the longer the video they put on the home page, the higher the conversion rate.
DevX101 4y ago
I've long suspected many large production recommendation algorithms suffer from a positive feedback loop problem. In the example you point out, there probably is some real behavioral bias to focus attention on highly expressive faces. Then the algorithm picks up on this small bias and amplifies it, where the entire front page turns into young people with shocked faces.
callumw13 4y ago
Wow nail on the head. Just did this and out of the first 8 videos, 5 were reaction videos, 4 with the exact same "shocked" faces. Scrolling down the page it is much the same. How can google allow whatever algorithm to present such homogenous content on such a general platform? Notably though, if I log in and visit my home page I have only one video of this nature on the front page in the first ~50, so it does appear possible to teach the algorithm you will not engage with such content even without conscious effort.

technion 4y ago

When I was playing WoW, it was hard to find, for example, "guide to blackwing lair". It would be way down the page, below videos always titled "shocked reaction to Blackwing lair boss kill", "streamer reacts to BWL speedrun".

elevatortrim 4y ago
I think that’s an issue with the monetisation. People who needs a specific guide would be relatively small in numbers. Unless your video is watched by tens/hundreds of thousands, it is not worth making (unless for hobby). Content creators are feeling like they need to make the title and image appealing to a wide audience rather than people looking for something specific. The search engine should prioritise videos matching your specific search so you can find what you are looking for from hobbyist creators but I’m not sure if that’s happening.
JasserInicide 4y ago
That shit is the fucking worst. 10 results down it gives you the "People also watched" and "For You" categories before it resumes listing what you fucking searched for. Can you imagine 20 years ago trying to build a search engine and explaining that you should insert search results that people didn't fucking search for?

ilamont 4y ago

Yes. Canva even has templates for clickbait, including "passive income" scams which have taken over YouTube. https://www.canva.com/p/templates/EAFBCRpOy3g-yellow-black-earn-money-youtube-thumbnail/ https://www.canva.com/p/templates/EAFBCRpOy3g-yellow-black-e...

mrweasel 4y ago

There was a Linus Tech Tips video where he admits that it's stupid, but sadly it works really well. It's a bit like when Wikipedia kept using Jimmy Wales' face in banners requesting donations. People claim to not like it, yet it's was what got the highest conversion rates.

GLGirty 4y ago
Gawd those haunting eyes... I wonder how many people donated just to make them stop.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
dereg 4y ago
This is a clear example of penny-wise but pound-foolish. At no point in a product's lifetime does should machine learning obviate the need for good taste.
- Balgair 4y ago
  I'm not going to argue that, but that ship sailed back in ~2014. All the FAANGs do live A/B testing like this.
  - dereg 4y ago
    2014 lines up with my memory of when YT recommendations, among many things, started to change for the worse. On a side note, wow. I can’t believe that 8 years have already passed. It feels like yesterday that people were actively debating these topics here on HN.
alexpotato 4y ago
Patrick McKenzie (aka patio11 here) had a post/talk about how when he was working with FogBugz they realized that people LOVE to watch Joel Spolsky talk. In fact, A/B testing showed that the longer the video they put on the home page, the higher the conversion rate.

DevX101 4y ago

I've long suspected many large production recommendation algorithms suffer from a positive feedback loop problem. In the example you point out, there probably is some real behavioral bias to focus attention on highly expressive faces. Then the algorithm picks up on this small bias and amplifies it, where the entire front page turns into young people with shocked faces.

callumw13 4y ago

Wow nail on the head. Just did this and out of the first 8 videos, 5 were reaction videos, 4 with the exact same "shocked" faces. Scrolling down the page it is much the same. How can google allow whatever algorithm to present such homogenous content on such a general platform? Notably though, if I log in and visit my home page I have only one video of this nature on the front page in the first ~50, so it does appear possible to teach the algorithm you will not engage with such content even without conscious effort.