3 ms·

> Their product is simply inferior in every way Completely untrue, I've played on both and the UX + post game Analysis, video content library, etc is far bette

by mythz 4y ago

> Their product is simply inferior in every way Completely untrue, I've played on both and the UX + post game Analysis, video content library, etc is far better on chess.com. I do hope lichess.org is able to improve and find better monetization options that's able to pay for more dev + UX resources, championship prizes + GM commentators which makes watching chess far more entertaining.

permo-w 4y ago
the lichess post game analysis is as good as that of chess.com, but isn’t presented in quite such a shiny appealing way. it’s not hard to find, but you have to seek it out, whereas chess.com shoves it in your face and tries to get you to pay for more
- jstx1 4y ago
  > but you have to seek it out, I don't think there's any seeking out necessary - you have 3 things to click on after a game - rematch, new opponent and analysis. Like is there really a user demographic that (1) is interested in game analysis and (2) doesn't notice or understand the button that's shown as an option at the end of every game?
  - mtlmtlmtlmtl 4y ago
    I think their point was that Chess.com drops you into analysis mode automatically when a game ends, whereas on lichess you have to go to analysis mode.
    - jstx1 4y ago
      Being auto-moved to a place I didn't select seems like a worse user experience to me. But I'm sure it helps chess.com's conversion rate to paid users or whatever.
  - apetresc 4y ago
    To be fair, I'm pretty sure by "analysis" they mean "engine analysis" (since that's the part you have to pay for on chess.com, not just getting an analysis board of your PGN). On lichess, "Analysis" is one button, but "Request Computer Analysis" is another button _in_ the analysis screen, and its often below the fold and behind a tab on most display resolutions. Probably because even fishnet wouldn't be able to keep up with deeply analysing every game on the site, and the in-browser WASM stockfish is good enough for most blitz/bullet games.
    - permo-w 4y ago
      precisely
  - BbzzbB 4y ago
    Call me an idiot if you'd like, but it took me more time than I'd like to admit to figure out how to use Lichess' analysis. Even if I sticked to the platform, being a sucker for OSS and free, I've abandonned the analysis option for quite a while thinking it was confusing and inferior to Chesscom's. You do have to seek it out. Even when you click on analysis, you still have to activate the engine and select a move back in time to start seeing arrows and whatever the score advantage thing is called. It's not rocket science, but you're not handheld and it's certainly not "analysis" followed by a PowerPoint of what great and terrible move happened; it's self-analysis with Stockfish. In the end I came to prefer Lichess' analysis board, but I think they'd have to gain walking you thru it better. I kinda doubt my father, who's not a dumby nor Internet-illiterate, would find it intuitive as it is. A highlight real of important move would seemingly be trivial to implement while also being straightforward to follow for anyone clicking on analysis for the first time, bringing them to dive in the self-analysis board. It would take nothing away for those who want to flicker thru their whole games, just remember a toggle option.
- mythz 4y ago
  As a subscriber I do "pay for more", so I see the complete analysis available after each game which has better UX and available content. You make it sound like chess.com shoves heaps of dark practice's IAP in your face, which isn't true, after I've paid for a subscription [1] I've seen no more paywall content or any more monetization options, I get full access to their sub content & features, which because it's great value and tastefully done, I intend to re-subscribe next year if I'm still playing by then. [1] https://chess.com/membership https://chess.com/membership
  - permo-w 4y ago
    >after I've paid for a subscription in lichess you can computer analyse the board as many times as you want, for free, without even needing an account. the only catch is that you might not notice the feature if you weren't looking for it. chess.com shoves it in your face, lets you do a few analyses, and then asks you to pay for more. whether that is still the case after you've already paid for more isn't really the point
mtlmtlmtlmtl 4y ago
Some people will always disagree, but it's been my experience that when people try both sites, most people end up preferring Lichess. Certainly when comparing lichess to Chess.com's free tier, there simply is no contest. When people say the opposite, it seems to always be people who have been chess.com customers for years, suggesting a possible post-purchase rationalisation
- dubeye 4y ago
  It could be also said, those who tend to talk up lichess don't tend to have much experience using the paid features, so overall tricky to analyse these comments. As often it's the free versions being compared. With com users extolling the paid features, and lichess users extolling their free features.
  - mtlmtlmtlmtl 4y ago
    As someone who had diamond membership on Chess.com for several years(cancelled when my card was accidentally overcharged, triggering an alert with my bank. Chess.com refused responsibility and eventually offered me a free month to make me go away. I refused and just went away instead). I then found lichess. I realised all the features I was paying for on chess.com were available for free, either through lichess, or youtube. St Louis chess club has a wealth of grandmaster lectures on their youtube channel, all free.
    - dubeye 4y ago
      I personally prefer the chess.com lectures. But as long as we can agree to not use terms like 'lichess is objectively better' I'm happy we can disagree
- UncleMeat 4y ago
  I'm with the above poster. I started playing online chess within the past year. I do not pay chess.com a cent. I find their UI to be more pleasing.
- rimliu 4y ago
nextaccountic 4y ago
> better monetization options Not gonna happen. Lichess is simply not this kind of product. It's like the Wikipedia monetization
dvirsky 4y ago
Agreed. I would say Lichess is superior in actual gameplay (apart from multi-premove, but that's not available in mobile on chess.com as well), but chess.com is better in the extra features. Their analysis is much more user friendly, especially for beginners. I play on both, but I often find myself going to chess.com to analyze a lichess game, and I don't think I've ever done the opposite.

by mythz 4y ago

permo-w 4y ago

the lichess post game analysis is as good as that of chess.com, but isn’t presented in quite such a shiny appealing way. it’s not hard to find, but you have to seek it out, whereas chess.com shoves it in your face and tries to get you to pay for more

jstx1 4y ago
> but you have to seek it out, I don't think there's any seeking out necessary - you have 3 things to click on after a game - rematch, new opponent and analysis. Like is there really a user demographic that (1) is interested in game analysis and (2) doesn't notice or understand the button that's shown as an option at the end of every game?
- mtlmtlmtlmtl 4y ago
  I think their point was that Chess.com drops you into analysis mode automatically when a game ends, whereas on lichess you have to go to analysis mode.
  - jstx1 4y ago
    Being auto-moved to a place I didn't select seems like a worse user experience to me. But I'm sure it helps chess.com's conversion rate to paid users or whatever.
- apetresc 4y ago
  To be fair, I'm pretty sure by "analysis" they mean "engine analysis" (since that's the part you have to pay for on chess.com, not just getting an analysis board of your PGN). On lichess, "Analysis" is one button, but "Request Computer Analysis" is another button _in_ the analysis screen, and its often below the fold and behind a tab on most display resolutions. Probably because even fishnet wouldn't be able to keep up with deeply analysing every game on the site, and the in-browser WASM stockfish is good enough for most blitz/bullet games.
  - permo-w 4y ago
    precisely
- BbzzbB 4y ago
  Call me an idiot if you'd like, but it took me more time than I'd like to admit to figure out how to use Lichess' analysis. Even if I sticked to the platform, being a sucker for OSS and free, I've abandonned the analysis option for quite a while thinking it was confusing and inferior to Chesscom's. You do have to seek it out. Even when you click on analysis, you still have to activate the engine and select a move back in time to start seeing arrows and whatever the score advantage thing is called. It's not rocket science, but you're not handheld and it's certainly not "analysis" followed by a PowerPoint of what great and terrible move happened; it's self-analysis with Stockfish. In the end I came to prefer Lichess' analysis board, but I think they'd have to gain walking you thru it better. I kinda doubt my father, who's not a dumby nor Internet-illiterate, would find it intuitive as it is. A highlight real of important move would seemingly be trivial to implement while also being straightforward to follow for anyone clicking on analysis for the first time, bringing them to dive in the self-analysis board. It would take nothing away for those who want to flicker thru their whole games, just remember a toggle option.
mythz 4y ago
As a subscriber I do "pay for more", so I see the complete analysis available after each game which has better UX and available content. You make it sound like chess.com shoves heaps of dark practice's IAP in your face, which isn't true, after I've paid for a subscription [1] I've seen no more paywall content or any more monetization options, I get full access to their sub content & features, which because it's great value and tastefully done, I intend to re-subscribe next year if I'm still playing by then. [1] https://chess.com/membership https://chess.com/membership
- permo-w 4y ago
  >after I've paid for a subscription in lichess you can computer analyse the board as many times as you want, for free, without even needing an account. the only catch is that you might not notice the feature if you weren't looking for it. chess.com shoves it in your face, lets you do a few analyses, and then asks you to pay for more. whether that is still the case after you've already paid for more isn't really the point

mtlmtlmtlmtl 4y ago

Some people will always disagree, but it's been my experience that when people try both sites, most people end up preferring Lichess. Certainly when comparing lichess to Chess.com's free tier, there simply is no contest. When people say the opposite, it seems to always be people who have been chess.com customers for years, suggesting a possible post-purchase rationalisation

dubeye 4y ago
It could be also said, those who tend to talk up lichess don't tend to have much experience using the paid features, so overall tricky to analyse these comments. As often it's the free versions being compared. With com users extolling the paid features, and lichess users extolling their free features.
- mtlmtlmtlmtl 4y ago
  As someone who had diamond membership on Chess.com for several years(cancelled when my card was accidentally overcharged, triggering an alert with my bank. Chess.com refused responsibility and eventually offered me a free month to make me go away. I refused and just went away instead). I then found lichess. I realised all the features I was paying for on chess.com were available for free, either through lichess, or youtube. St Louis chess club has a wealth of grandmaster lectures on their youtube channel, all free.
  - dubeye 4y ago
    I personally prefer the chess.com lectures. But as long as we can agree to not use terms like 'lichess is objectively better' I'm happy we can disagree
UncleMeat 4y ago
I'm with the above poster. I started playing online chess within the past year. I do not pay chess.com a cent. I find their UI to be more pleasing.
rimliu 4y ago

nextaccountic 4y ago

> better monetization options Not gonna happen. Lichess is simply not this kind of product. It's like the Wikipedia monetization

dvirsky 4y ago

Agreed. I would say Lichess is superior in actual gameplay (apart from multi-premove, but that's not available in mobile on chess.com as well), but chess.com is better in the extra features. Their analysis is much more user friendly, especially for beginners. I play on both, but I often find myself going to chess.com to analyze a lichess game, and I don't think I've ever done the opposite.