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I think GP missed the mark on Wonder Woman 1984 (and it certainly didn't bomb in cinemas like the other recent examples of "wokeism" have) but you have missed t

I think GP missed the mark on Wonder Woman 1984 (and it certainly didn't bomb in cinemas like the other recent examples of "wokeism" have) but you have missed the crux of their argument. Wonder Woman was something new and distinctly its own. It wasn't a genderbent Wolverine or Iron Man. Taking an existing IP and applying a hamfisted, different world outlook to it that goes against all prior character / world building and audience expectations is jarring. Notice that Wonder Woman 1984 (73%) didn't bomb spectacularly like Ghost Busters (49% rotten tomatoes), Oceans 8 (46%) etc. have.

krapp 4y ago
Comics do "different world outlooks" all the time. Batgirl as a character goes back to the 1960s, and basically every male superhero has had a female version at this point.
- jimmydorry 4y ago
  I was only referring to blockbuster movies, as that is what GP referred to and what the article was about. There are no moden Batgirl movies and I can't think of any superhero movies that took their character in a new direction that didn't flop.
- dragontamer 4y ago
  > and basically every male superhero has had a female version at this point. And a male kid-version. Ex: Superboy. Kid Flash. Robin. Aqualad. They even get together and form a kid-version of the Justice League (Young Justice), actually another team because there are so many of them (Teen Titans). Complaining about slightly-altered superheroes in kid / female / minority / gay / lesbian / whatever form is... weird? Like comics have been doing this for decades. Its been going on for so long, that the "kid version" have grown up and made their own superhero teams. Robin grew up into Nightwing and leads the Outsiders. Batgirl grew up into Oracle and leads the Birds of Prey. In some cases, the "female" version outstrips the original in popularity. Zatara may be the original DC stage magician, but his daughter Zatanna is definitely the more popular comic book superheroine.
dragontamer 4y ago
> It wasn't a genderbent Wolverine or Iron Man But Huntress (Helena Bertinelli) was a genderbent Batman. Supergirl is gender-bent Superman. In fact, every male superhero has a female counterpart. Captain Marvel / Shazam has Mary Marvel. Superman has Supergirl. Batman has Batgirl, actually 3 different batgirls. --------- The only question for "longtime DC Fans" for Batgirl is: are they doing Cassandra Cain or are they doing Barbara Gordon? There's like 3+ long-running batgirl stories that go back decades. Besides, both Cassandra Cain and Barbara Gordon are both unique characters who take up the "Batgirl" costume to the disdain of Batman. Its not like the "obvious" genderswap version (Huntress / Helena Bertinelli) who was kind of "obviously" written to be a female-version of Batman. Cassandra Cain is League of Assassins originally. She never learned proper language / speaking skills and is overcoming illiteracy. She's unsocialized, extremely awkward, etc. etc. Barbara Gordon is Commissioner Gordon's daughter, and is often a bit campier as a result. (The Police Chief certainly doesn't want his daughter in danger, but she goes out and helps Batman anyway). She's more of a fangirl of Batman and arguably connects with female fans in a more natural way. Neither Cassandra Cain nor Barbara Gordon are rich, nor powerful, nor CEOs. Cassandra Cain was "League of Assassin" trained before Batman was (it was an interesting twist to have them train him in the 2000s era films, but that's really Cassandra / Damian's story) --------- The first "Batgirl" was in the 1960s, and "Barbara Gordon" version of Batgirl was all over the original 1960s campy "Batman" live action TV show. There's literally 60+ years of Batgirl history here. Its suddenly weird to complain of wokeism when the character has such a long history in comics and TV. ----------- The only criticism I have, is that they didn't do Batgirl sooner. After all, there was the "Birds of Prey" movie, and Batgirl should have "graduated" into Oracle (her full-time superhero gig) for the Birds of Prey to get together. Batgirl is kind of the "awkward fangirl" thing she does as a kid. In my groups where I talk about comic books, everyone was wondering where the hell Oracle was in the Birds of Prey movie.
- jimmydorry 4y ago
  I was only referring to blockbuster movies, as that is what GP referred to and what the article was about. There are certainly many genderbent takes on super heroes in comic books. However, I can't think of any movies that took a superhero in a completely different direction that didn't flop.

krapp 4y ago

Comics do "different world outlooks" all the time. Batgirl as a character goes back to the 1960s, and basically every male superhero has had a female version at this point.

jimmydorry 4y ago
I was only referring to blockbuster movies, as that is what GP referred to and what the article was about. There are no moden Batgirl movies and I can't think of any superhero movies that took their character in a new direction that didn't flop.
dragontamer 4y ago
> and basically every male superhero has had a female version at this point. And a male kid-version. Ex: Superboy. Kid Flash. Robin. Aqualad. They even get together and form a kid-version of the Justice League (Young Justice), actually another team because there are so many of them (Teen Titans). Complaining about slightly-altered superheroes in kid / female / minority / gay / lesbian / whatever form is... weird? Like comics have been doing this for decades. Its been going on for so long, that the "kid version" have grown up and made their own superhero teams. Robin grew up into Nightwing and leads the Outsiders. Batgirl grew up into Oracle and leads the Birds of Prey. In some cases, the "female" version outstrips the original in popularity. Zatara may be the original DC stage magician, but his daughter Zatanna is definitely the more popular comic book superheroine.

dragontamer 4y ago

> It wasn't a genderbent Wolverine or Iron Man But Huntress (Helena Bertinelli) was a genderbent Batman. Supergirl is gender-bent Superman. In fact, every male superhero has a female counterpart. Captain Marvel / Shazam has Mary Marvel. Superman has Supergirl. Batman has Batgirl, actually 3 different batgirls. --------- The only question for "longtime DC Fans" for Batgirl is: are they doing Cassandra Cain or are they doing Barbara Gordon? There's like 3+ long-running batgirl stories that go back decades. Besides, both Cassandra Cain and Barbara Gordon are both unique characters who take up the "Batgirl" costume to the disdain of Batman. Its not like the "obvious" genderswap version (Huntress / Helena Bertinelli) who was kind of "obviously" written to be a female-version of Batman. Cassandra Cain is League of Assassins originally. She never learned proper language / speaking skills and is overcoming illiteracy. She's unsocialized, extremely awkward, etc. etc. Barbara Gordon is Commissioner Gordon's daughter, and is often a bit campier as a result. (The Police Chief certainly doesn't want his daughter in danger, but she goes out and helps Batman anyway). She's more of a fangirl of Batman and arguably connects with female fans in a more natural way. Neither Cassandra Cain nor Barbara Gordon are rich, nor powerful, nor CEOs. Cassandra Cain was "League of Assassin" trained before Batman was (it was an interesting twist to have them train him in the 2000s era films, but that's really Cassandra / Damian's story) --------- The first "Batgirl" was in the 1960s, and "Barbara Gordon" version of Batgirl was all over the original 1960s campy "Batman" live action TV show. There's literally 60+ years of Batgirl history here. Its suddenly weird to complain of wokeism when the character has such a long history in comics and TV. ----------- The only criticism I have, is that they didn't do Batgirl sooner. After all, there was the "Birds of Prey" movie, and Batgirl should have "graduated" into Oracle (her full-time superhero gig) for the Birds of Prey to get together. Batgirl is kind of the "awkward fangirl" thing she does as a kid. In my groups where I talk about comic books, everyone was wondering where the hell Oracle was in the Birds of Prey movie.

jimmydorry 4y ago
I was only referring to blockbuster movies, as that is what GP referred to and what the article was about. There are certainly many genderbent takes on super heroes in comic books. However, I can't think of any movies that took a superhero in a completely different direction that didn't flop.