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> If platforms like Facebook and Instagram abandon their social graphs to pursue this cybernetic TikTok model, they’ll lose their competitive advantage. Is it

by thih9 4y ago

> If platforms like Facebook and Instagram abandon their social graphs to pursue this cybernetic TikTok model, they’ll lose their competitive advantage. Is it really a competitive advantage if a competitor is doing better without it?

jsemrau 4y ago
The social graph is a terrible approximation of personal interests.
- ttyprintk 4y ago
  Yup. It’s not that an echo chamber is inevitable; for me, finding something interesting that’s not represented among my social graph is more likely to be viral/marketable/attractive than something circulating among the most-active 5%. TikTok doesn’t need that graph on an individual’s scale.
  - jsemrau 4y ago
    Hence, it so much more resembles "real life". And I think that's where TikTok thrives, it is a single player experience with networked features. Similar to going window shopping in a Mall with Billions of windows.
meltyness 4y ago
Cal has apparently confused his own language here. A graph of details about rich media is still, in some sense, a social graph. Rather than documenting: who do you know? when did you meet them? Capturing: what do you know? when did you learn it? who did you learn it from? what do you call it? how should it be presented? And so on...
- pantulis 4y ago
  I fail to follow Cal's argument. It seems that he is abandoning his "digital detox" doctrine towards privacy. If the issue with social networks is the time we waste on them, why would an algorithmically generated feed be less addictive than a social network feed?
  - Balgair 4y ago
    I didn't read that Cal is arguing that one should use TT over FB. I think he's just pointing out that FB's change into a TT-like graph isn't in their wheelhouse. FB built up a social graph. TT has built up an attention profile. Though they look similar, Cal is saying they are different. FB will be starting from the near bottom and years behind.
    - bink 4y ago
      I don't think it matters much whether it's in their wheelhouse or not or whether they succeed or not. What matters is that transitioning away from the social graph is abandoning their moat, the very thing that keeps them a monopoly in social media. Once that's gone it'll be a level playing field and they are unlikely to survive for long.
- lopis 4y ago
  > A graph of details about rich media is still, in some sense, a social graph. Yes, but it's a kind of graph that the user can generate from zero without needing friends or following anyone. It's not social from the user's POV.
Banana699 4y ago
The competitor is not doing better because of its disadvantage, it is doing better despite it. The space of apps is high dimensional, (what used to be) Facebook's niche is a very obvious local optima that it filled early on and locked away from past and future competitors. Tiktok was forced to find another non-obvious local optima and it did. Facebook also have long abandoned their competitive advantage with their outrage porn focused recommendations since at least 2015/2016, they were just doing it badly. Tiktok is showing them how it's better done.
- meltyness 4y ago
  I wouldn't call it better, TikTok isn't presently obligated to care about their market, however. Wheras YouTube recommendations are seen as exploitable by an adversary to undermine ad revenue and platform trust, TikTok has the benefit of being "nascent" with a "runway" to survive without a real business model, on the relative strength of the current user base. This isn't a new frontier, and ByteDance hasn't solved the robustness problem, they're just receiving the going discount on ignoring it. It'll work itself out.

by thih9 4y ago

jsemrau 4y ago

The social graph is a terrible approximation of personal interests.

ttyprintk 4y ago
Yup. It’s not that an echo chamber is inevitable; for me, finding something interesting that’s not represented among my social graph is more likely to be viral/marketable/attractive than something circulating among the most-active 5%. TikTok doesn’t need that graph on an individual’s scale.
- jsemrau 4y ago
  Hence, it so much more resembles "real life". And I think that's where TikTok thrives, it is a single player experience with networked features. Similar to going window shopping in a Mall with Billions of windows.

meltyness 4y ago

Cal has apparently confused his own language here. A graph of details about rich media is still, in some sense, a social graph. Rather than documenting: who do you know? when did you meet them? Capturing: what do you know? when did you learn it? who did you learn it from? what do you call it? how should it be presented? And so on...

pantulis 4y ago
I fail to follow Cal's argument. It seems that he is abandoning his "digital detox" doctrine towards privacy. If the issue with social networks is the time we waste on them, why would an algorithmically generated feed be less addictive than a social network feed?
- Balgair 4y ago
  I didn't read that Cal is arguing that one should use TT over FB. I think he's just pointing out that FB's change into a TT-like graph isn't in their wheelhouse. FB built up a social graph. TT has built up an attention profile. Though they look similar, Cal is saying they are different. FB will be starting from the near bottom and years behind.
  - bink 4y ago
    I don't think it matters much whether it's in their wheelhouse or not or whether they succeed or not. What matters is that transitioning away from the social graph is abandoning their moat, the very thing that keeps them a monopoly in social media. Once that's gone it'll be a level playing field and they are unlikely to survive for long.
lopis 4y ago
> A graph of details about rich media is still, in some sense, a social graph. Yes, but it's a kind of graph that the user can generate from zero without needing friends or following anyone. It's not social from the user's POV.

Banana699 4y ago

The competitor is not doing better because of its disadvantage, it is doing better despite it. The space of apps is high dimensional, (what used to be) Facebook's niche is a very obvious local optima that it filled early on and locked away from past and future competitors. Tiktok was forced to find another non-obvious local optima and it did. Facebook also have long abandoned their competitive advantage with their outrage porn focused recommendations since at least 2015/2016, they were just doing it badly. Tiktok is showing them how it's better done.

meltyness 4y ago
I wouldn't call it better, TikTok isn't presently obligated to care about their market, however. Wheras YouTube recommendations are seen as exploitable by an adversary to undermine ad revenue and platform trust, TikTok has the benefit of being "nascent" with a "runway" to survive without a real business model, on the relative strength of the current user base. This isn't a new frontier, and ByteDance hasn't solved the robustness problem, they're just receiving the going discount on ignoring it. It'll work itself out.