4 ms·

It’s already here, we just have better names like FICO, and Terrorist Watch Lists. If you don’t think the government doesn’t have a file on you, you haven’t be

It’s already here, we just have better names like FICO, and Terrorist Watch Lists. If you don’t think the government doesn’t have a file on you, you haven’t been paying attention.

outworlder 4y ago
FICO gets pulled into these discussions all the time, and yet it makes no sense. That only impact what rates your lenders will use(or if they will lend you money at all). That's no different from using your driving history and demographic data to set insurance rates. It's maintained by private companies. You can still use cash if you want. No fly lists are an ok example. Still, they are not tied to how much brown nosing you do towards the people in charge.
- gav 4y ago
  FICO impacts a lot more than just how much borrowing money cost including insurance rates (except for CA, HI, MA) and a lot of rentals (both to deny, increase costs, and having to pay for your credit report to be run).
- sudosysgen 4y ago
  That's not true. FICO rates affect where you're allowed to live, what kind of modes of transportation you're allowed to have (many insurers take it into account to decide whether or not to provide coverage), even some health procedures (many dental practices now check credit score), etc...
  - mch82 4y ago
    Can you recommend a reference for this? Was trying to explain why credit is important to someone who doesn’t want a credit card.
    - sudosysgen 4y ago
      https://borrowell.com/blog/what-credit-score-do-you-need-to-rent-an-apartment https://borrowell.com/blog/what-credit-score-do-you-need-to-... https://content.naic.org/cipr-topics/credit-based-insurance-scores https://content.naic.org/cipr-topics/credit-based-insurance-... https://www.vincentjnardone.com/healthcare-blog/2015/02/necessary-pull-patients-credit-reports/ https://www.vincentjnardone.com/healthcare-blog/2015/02/nece...
  - refurb 4y ago
    But only in the sense of financial risk. That doesn't seem unreasonable to me that people who are entering some sort of financial contract with you have the ability to easy see your credit history. But again, just don't use credit (or use it minimally) and you're good.
    - salawat 4y ago
      >That doesn't seem unreasonable to me that people who are entering some sort of financial contract with you have the ability to easy see your credit history. ...Do keep in mind that the progenitors of Equifax and the other Credit Bureaus were private investigators most frequently hired by the well heeled in order to "gauge trustworthyness", which takes many forms... Including Union busting, and building blacklists.
    - sudosysgen 4y ago
      It's not really about financial risk. It's about trust. The FICO score is being used as a proxy for trust, which is problematic. If you don't use credit or use it minimally your credit score will begin to fall.
      - refurb 4y ago
        The federal government uses credit reports for security checks. Maybe start with them?
- inversalAutoDoc 4y ago
  > You can still use cash if you want. The people who have bad credit scores are the exact same people who cannot, in fact, use cash if they want.
- com2kid 4y ago
  > You can still use cash if you want. A large number of stores around me, including some grocery stores, no longer take cash.
  - nobody9999 4y ago
    >A large number of stores around me, including some grocery stores, no longer take cash. That's illegal where I live (New York City). I have no interest in outing/doxxing you, but if you'd care to share where you live, I'd love to know where that is -- so I can make sure never to go there.
    - dTal 4y ago
      The Netherlands is almost entirely cashless now.
      - MichaelZuo 4y ago
        Huh, I would have thought the Dutch would be especially keen for a right to pay in legal tender without middlemen...
      - nobody9999 4y ago
        >The Netherlands is almost entirely cashless now. Not according to DeNederlandsche Bank[0]: "Consumers in the Netherlands can choose their preferred method of payment at most retailers. Although the use of cash at points of sale is declining, broad acceptance by retailers is also important – for example as a fall-back option in the event of POS terminal disruptions. The study, in which over 1,000 retailers participated, shows that cash is still the most widely accepted means of payment for point-of-sale transactions, at 97% (see Figure 1). Debit card payments are the next most popular payment method, with acceptance standing at 87%. There are substantial differences between individual sectors, however. Acceptance of cash and debit cards is the highest at petrol stations, large and small retailers, at >=98% and >=92%, respectively. It is the lowest in the entertainment sector, at 93% for cash and 80% for debit cards. A mere 3% of all retailers said they used a debit card-only policy, mostly for efficiency and security reasons." I'd also note that it was the non-acceptance of cash to which I was objecting, not the ability to use non-cash payment methods. Perhaps that's a difference that's too subtle, but I don't think so. [0] https://www.dnb.nl/en/general-news/2020/dutch-retailers-continue-to-accept-cash/ https://www.dnb.nl/en/general-news/2020/dutch-retailers-cont...
orangepurple 4y ago
Don't forget about known traveler number (KTN) and X-KEYSCORE

It’s already here, we just have better names like FICO, and Terrorist Watch Lists. If you don’t think the government doesn’t have a file on you, you haven’t been paying attention.

outworlder 4y ago

FICO gets pulled into these discussions all the time, and yet it makes no sense. That only impact what rates your lenders will use(or if they will lend you money at all). That's no different from using your driving history and demographic data to set insurance rates. It's maintained by private companies. You can still use cash if you want. No fly lists are an ok example. Still, they are not tied to how much brown nosing you do towards the people in charge.

gav 4y ago
FICO impacts a lot more than just how much borrowing money cost including insurance rates (except for CA, HI, MA) and a lot of rentals (both to deny, increase costs, and having to pay for your credit report to be run).
sudosysgen 4y ago
That's not true. FICO rates affect where you're allowed to live, what kind of modes of transportation you're allowed to have (many insurers take it into account to decide whether or not to provide coverage), even some health procedures (many dental practices now check credit score), etc...
- mch82 4y ago
  Can you recommend a reference for this? Was trying to explain why credit is important to someone who doesn’t want a credit card.
  - sudosysgen 4y ago
    https://borrowell.com/blog/what-credit-score-do-you-need-to-rent-an-apartment https://borrowell.com/blog/what-credit-score-do-you-need-to-... https://content.naic.org/cipr-topics/credit-based-insurance-scores https://content.naic.org/cipr-topics/credit-based-insurance-... https://www.vincentjnardone.com/healthcare-blog/2015/02/necessary-pull-patients-credit-reports/ https://www.vincentjnardone.com/healthcare-blog/2015/02/nece...
- refurb 4y ago
  But only in the sense of financial risk. That doesn't seem unreasonable to me that people who are entering some sort of financial contract with you have the ability to easy see your credit history. But again, just don't use credit (or use it minimally) and you're good.
  - salawat 4y ago
    >That doesn't seem unreasonable to me that people who are entering some sort of financial contract with you have the ability to easy see your credit history. ...Do keep in mind that the progenitors of Equifax and the other Credit Bureaus were private investigators most frequently hired by the well heeled in order to "gauge trustworthyness", which takes many forms... Including Union busting, and building blacklists.
  - sudosysgen 4y ago
    It's not really about financial risk. It's about trust. The FICO score is being used as a proxy for trust, which is problematic. If you don't use credit or use it minimally your credit score will begin to fall.
    - refurb 4y ago
      The federal government uses credit reports for security checks. Maybe start with them?
inversalAutoDoc 4y ago
> You can still use cash if you want. The people who have bad credit scores are the exact same people who cannot, in fact, use cash if they want.
com2kid 4y ago
> You can still use cash if you want. A large number of stores around me, including some grocery stores, no longer take cash.
- nobody9999 4y ago
  >A large number of stores around me, including some grocery stores, no longer take cash. That's illegal where I live (New York City). I have no interest in outing/doxxing you, but if you'd care to share where you live, I'd love to know where that is -- so I can make sure never to go there.
  - dTal 4y ago
    The Netherlands is almost entirely cashless now.
    - MichaelZuo 4y ago
      Huh, I would have thought the Dutch would be especially keen for a right to pay in legal tender without middlemen...
    - nobody9999 4y ago
      >The Netherlands is almost entirely cashless now. Not according to DeNederlandsche Bank[0]: "Consumers in the Netherlands can choose their preferred method of payment at most retailers. Although the use of cash at points of sale is declining, broad acceptance by retailers is also important – for example as a fall-back option in the event of POS terminal disruptions. The study, in which over 1,000 retailers participated, shows that cash is still the most widely accepted means of payment for point-of-sale transactions, at 97% (see Figure 1). Debit card payments are the next most popular payment method, with acceptance standing at 87%. There are substantial differences between individual sectors, however. Acceptance of cash and debit cards is the highest at petrol stations, large and small retailers, at >=98% and >=92%, respectively. It is the lowest in the entertainment sector, at 93% for cash and 80% for debit cards. A mere 3% of all retailers said they used a debit card-only policy, mostly for efficiency and security reasons." I'd also note that it was the non-acceptance of cash to which I was objecting, not the ability to use non-cash payment methods. Perhaps that's a difference that's too subtle, but I don't think so. [0] https://www.dnb.nl/en/general-news/2020/dutch-retailers-continue-to-accept-cash/ https://www.dnb.nl/en/general-news/2020/dutch-retailers-cont...

orangepurple 4y ago

Don't forget about known traveler number (KTN) and X-KEYSCORE