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Tow No the Ford F-150 Lightning Struggled in Our Towing Test

16 points by starkd 4y ago

josephcsible 4y ago
> a fully charged 2022 Ford F-150 Lightning electric truck has less energy onboard than a regular F-150 with four gallons of gas in its tank. This is misleading because of how much less energy efficient a gas engine is than an electric motor. > Equipped with single-speed transmissions at the front and rear motors, the Lightning can't just downshift into the meat of the torque curve like a gas truck does, so passing maneuvers at highway speeds require patience and planning with a heavy trailer. This doesn't sound right either. Isn't the reason that ICE vehicles have transmissions and EVs don't that the former have very narrow power bands, but that the latter basically have peak torque from 0rpm all the way until peak power, and then have peak power from there all the way until redline?
- charles_kaw 4y ago
  Under heavy load, electric motors get hot faster (which makes them less efficient). It doesn't surprise me to hear they're having problems with towing.
  - starkd 4y ago
    I can't imagine how the EV buses will truly fare. This has to be the biggest corporate grift I've ever seen.
    - ragingrobot 4y ago
      The use case for a bus differs from a pickup, though. As far as the battery, at least in NYC there was talk of having quick charging stations at the end of each line. However the typical driver layover time is on the order of twenty minutes, so they'd have to be real quick charging. Never mind vandalism of charging stations, and that areas of NYC flood easily. I lived in an area where it floods easily in a moderate rain storm. The arrival of hybrid buses years ago also saw the arrival of "No service due to road conditions." Many are stuck in this mindset "OMFG! The world is going to end literally, TOMORROW, if we don't stop global warming!" and providing knee-jerk responses. Corporations have no problem cashing in on it.
      - starkd 4y ago
        There's still a heavy load with buses. And buses need to be able to run all day and all need access to a charging station at night. I understand the use of EV's for passenger cars, but transportation isn't a one size fits all.
        ragingrobot 4y ago
        I didn't disagree with you at all. I was just providing some more substance, beyond the charging and durability factors. I mentioned flooding as one factor. When the remnants of Ida hit last year the entire transit system shut down due to flooding - for hours. Had they still been running diesel powered buses with less sensitive components, some service could have been provided. As far as the load however, higher speeds aren't required, and they can maneuver like rhinos and it's OK. NYC Subway cars do pretty well hauling loads, the most powerful motors being ~160hp (unfortunately torque ratings are impossible to find), with the car body itself being over 40 tons. > I understand the use of EV's for passenger cars, but transportation isn't a one size fits all. I agree fully. Right now all this is a money grab because it's being thrown around in the name of climate change. I am of a sort of mind where tech should have limited use in the transportation space, where reliability should be primary. Our subway trains and signals routinely have some sort of computer related issues where implemented. The older tech tends to have fewer issues when maintained properly.
    - Kirby64 4y ago
      Buses in the city have to be one of the best uses for an EV... relatively low speeds, tons of stop and go for each stop. How do you get better than that?
    - pipodeclown 4y ago
      Don't see what you mean, there are plenty of places in the world in which most busses are already electric, I actually live in one!
- starkd 4y ago
  They are talking about how far you can go with a regular F-150 truck with a heavy tow on 4 gallons of gas. It still beat the EV version.
  - Kirby64 4y ago
    No, they aren't. They're comparing a regular F-150 driving unladen with to a F-150L towing in their comparison. An unladen F-150 gets ~25mpg (highway) for the Ecoboost 3.5L. So, 4 gallons would get you ~100 miles. Take a look at any forum and you'll see that towing a trailer like they're talking about in this post and you'll be closer to ~10-12mpg. So, you'd be able to go maybe 40-50 miles on 4 gallons of gas. That said, those trucks come with a 20+ gallon tank (26 on the crew cab, apparently), so even at 12mpg, you're still over 300mi of 'range' when towing. Much better than an F150L. Which... supports their conclusion that you need double or triple the density of battery capacity, which would equate to roughly parity in driving range of a regular F150 when towing.
IronWolve 4y ago
FLT is doing an Alaska trip in the lightning, just to see if it can be done. They knew they run out of battery, so they had a ford hybrid with the powervault so they could charge it via plug into the bed power. Its rather crazy, but fun to watch. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qUGxRTEcymk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qUGxRTEcymk

16 points by starkd 4y ago

> a fully charged 2022 Ford F-150 Lightning electric truck has less energy onboard than a regular F-150 with four gallons of gas in its tank. This is misleading because of how much less energy efficient a gas engine is than an electric motor. > Equipped with single-speed transmissions at the front and rear motors, the Lightning can't just downshift into the meat of the torque curve like a gas truck does, so passing maneuvers at highway speeds require patience and planning with a heavy trailer. This doesn't sound right either. Isn't the reason that ICE vehicles have transmissions and EVs don't that the former have very narrow power bands, but that the latter basically have peak torque from 0rpm all the way until peak power, and then have peak power from there all the way until redline?

charles_kaw 4y ago
Under heavy load, electric motors get hot faster (which makes them less efficient). It doesn't surprise me to hear they're having problems with towing.
- starkd 4y ago
  I can't imagine how the EV buses will truly fare. This has to be the biggest corporate grift I've ever seen.
  - ragingrobot 4y ago
    The use case for a bus differs from a pickup, though. As far as the battery, at least in NYC there was talk of having quick charging stations at the end of each line. However the typical driver layover time is on the order of twenty minutes, so they'd have to be real quick charging. Never mind vandalism of charging stations, and that areas of NYC flood easily. I lived in an area where it floods easily in a moderate rain storm. The arrival of hybrid buses years ago also saw the arrival of "No service due to road conditions." Many are stuck in this mindset "OMFG! The world is going to end literally, TOMORROW, if we don't stop global warming!" and providing knee-jerk responses. Corporations have no problem cashing in on it.
    - starkd 4y ago
      There's still a heavy load with buses. And buses need to be able to run all day and all need access to a charging station at night. I understand the use of EV's for passenger cars, but transportation isn't a one size fits all.
      - ragingrobot 4y ago
        I didn't disagree with you at all. I was just providing some more substance, beyond the charging and durability factors. I mentioned flooding as one factor. When the remnants of Ida hit last year the entire transit system shut down due to flooding - for hours. Had they still been running diesel powered buses with less sensitive components, some service could have been provided. As far as the load however, higher speeds aren't required, and they can maneuver like rhinos and it's OK. NYC Subway cars do pretty well hauling loads, the most powerful motors being ~160hp (unfortunately torque ratings are impossible to find), with the car body itself being over 40 tons. > I understand the use of EV's for passenger cars, but transportation isn't a one size fits all. I agree fully. Right now all this is a money grab because it's being thrown around in the name of climate change. I am of a sort of mind where tech should have limited use in the transportation space, where reliability should be primary. Our subway trains and signals routinely have some sort of computer related issues where implemented. The older tech tends to have fewer issues when maintained properly.
  - Kirby64 4y ago
    Buses in the city have to be one of the best uses for an EV... relatively low speeds, tons of stop and go for each stop. How do you get better than that?
  - pipodeclown 4y ago
    Don't see what you mean, there are plenty of places in the world in which most busses are already electric, I actually live in one!
starkd 4y ago
They are talking about how far you can go with a regular F-150 truck with a heavy tow on 4 gallons of gas. It still beat the EV version.
- Kirby64 4y ago
  No, they aren't. They're comparing a regular F-150 driving unladen with to a F-150L towing in their comparison. An unladen F-150 gets ~25mpg (highway) for the Ecoboost 3.5L. So, 4 gallons would get you ~100 miles. Take a look at any forum and you'll see that towing a trailer like they're talking about in this post and you'll be closer to ~10-12mpg. So, you'd be able to go maybe 40-50 miles on 4 gallons of gas. That said, those trucks come with a 20+ gallon tank (26 on the crew cab, apparently), so even at 12mpg, you're still over 300mi of 'range' when towing. Much better than an F150L. Which... supports their conclusion that you need double or triple the density of battery capacity, which would equate to roughly parity in driving range of a regular F150 when towing.

IronWolve 4y ago

FLT is doing an Alaska trip in the lightning, just to see if it can be done. They knew they run out of battery, so they had a ford hybrid with the powervault so they could charge it via plug into the bed power. Its rather crazy, but fun to watch. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qUGxRTEcymk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qUGxRTEcymk