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The most “amusing” example of PFA use I’ve heard of is in waterproofing the compostable paper single-use food containers, and most ridiculous of all, paper stra
by zaroth 4y ago
The most “amusing” example of PFA use I’ve heard of is in waterproofing the compostable paper single-use food containers, and most ridiculous of all, paper straws.
Talk about cutting off one’s own nose.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33770693/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33770693/
- ars 4y agoYup, I've heard the same. I refuse to use paper straws as a result.
- jjoonathan 4y ago> While the plastic straws had no measurable PFAS, 21 PFAS were detected in the paper and other plant-based straws Wow. That's evil.
- ch4s3 4y agowell, otherwise they disintegrate immediately. Of course some people pointed this out up front when banning straws was first proposed.
- i_am_proteus 4y agoIf only there were some natural plant-based material that could be used as a straw... perhaps a byproduct of cereal cultivation.
- sillystuff 4y agoSibling comment mentions using the stems of grain crops as natural drinking straws. This was done, in the past, and is the origin of the word "straws" for the modern plastic variety. Historically, straws were also made from waxed paper. The issue isn't that plastic straws were banned, it is that plastic straws were banned and no additional guidance was provided e.g., mandating paper straws with natural wax coatings. This combined with corporate greed led to companies putting out the most profitable product within constraints of the law-- health and environmental safety be damned. The first paragraph of the following article describes both types of historical drinking straws: https://www.encyclopedia.com/manufacturing/news-wires-white-papers-and-books/drinking-straw https://www.encyclopedia.com/manufacturing/news-wires-white-... edit: clarity
- ch4s3 4y agoWaxed straws used paraffin which is made from petroleum anyway, and they still get soaked through and collapse like the shitty PFAS coated straws. I know because they’re still made and I’ve used one, and the attic you posted mentions that draw back. Straws made from plant stalks simply aren’t suited to mass distribution. They aren’t uniform, can’t easily be sanitized before packaging, they’re fragile, and still leak and get soaked. The problem isn’t “corporate greed” it’s that there aren’t good alternatives to plastic for disposable straws.
- incompatible 4y agoAn alternative would be to do without a straw. Is it so hard to drink without one?
- guelo 4y agoThe demand comes from car culture. Drinking in cars is difficult without lid and straw.
- throwaway0a5e 4y agoYou ever try eating your fast food on the train/subway/bus. The same situation exists there too. The problem isn't the cars. The problem is that we don't all live in some fantasy where people have time to sit down and eat their food and drink not on the go. If it wasn't the straws people would be complaining about the plastic coffee cup lids.
- bergenty 4y agoSo what, this is a solved problem. There are plenty of waxed paper alternatives. This is evil.
- ch4s3 4y agoThose still fall apart in liquid after a few minutes and the wax is made of petroleum. I’m not sure plastic straws were ever really a problem worth solving, given the trade offs.
- bergenty 4y agoNo they do not, waxed paper can be soaked for hours. Petroleum isn’t the only source of wax.
- ch4s3 4y agoThey're definitely usually made of paraffin, and every one I've encountered falls apart quickly. There are two coffee shops near me that use them and they both fall apart within 15 minutes.
- eru 4y agoYou know that opportunity costs are a thing? Yes, crude oil isn't the only source of wax, and neither it is the only source of plastic. However, if you make wax out of something, you can't make anything else out of the same material. Plastic straws are really light-weight. Waxed paper uses a lot more material.
- ch4s3 4y agoThat’s kind of what I’m getting at too.
- kurupt213 4y agoYou can use paraffin wax or beeswax to waterproof paper and fabric. That’s what humans did for hundreds of years
- ch4s3 4y agoI’m aware. I have a waxed jacket, but my Gortex jacket is lighter, holds out water longer, is breathable, and is easier to clean. Clearly we shouldn’t use PFAS in straws, but waxed straws are awful.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- rthomas6 4y agoEven worse: Dental floss. Oral-B Glide is made with it.
- zaroth 4y agoPlease say this isn’t true… What’s the point of an EPA guideline if we’re literally flossing with it? This seems to be the study that first found an association between Oral-B flossing and higher levels of PFAS in the body; https://www.eurekalert.org/news-releases/636598 https://www.eurekalert.org/news-releases/636598
- Zamicol 4y agoJust looked it up because of your comment. Plackers contain PFAS in the form of PTFE (Teflon). I play with those in my mouth all the time. Holy cow.
- kragen 4y agoPTFE is approximately the most nontoxic material in the world.
- tremon 4y agoIt's well known (and documented) that PTFE fumes from cooking can be deadly to birds. I don't think "the most nontoxic" is anywhere near accurate, approximately or not. Not that that same risk applies to dental floss (I don't think many people heat their dental floss to a few hundred degrees), but your statement was more general than that.
- kragen 4y agoPretty much anything produces toxic fumes if you get it hot enough. Air produces nitrogen dioxide, for example, water produces ozone, and table salt produces chlorine (and sodium vapor, of course, but that condenses before you have a chance to breathe it). Those fumes, which require temperatures far above cooking temperatures to form, aren't PTFE; they're a cocktail of nasty fluorocarbons which are bad for you too, just not immediately fatal the way they are for birds. So "the most nontoxic" is pretty darn accurate. PTFE is substantially less toxic than air, water, table salt, cellulose, polypropylene, or pretty much anything else you're likely to put in your mouth.