4 ms·

Also a lot of lubricants in bicycle gear and some rainproof gear uses PFAS, which is again slowly rubbing off onto your skin or going airbone.

staindk 4y ago
GORE-TEX materials had a PFAS problem but have been PFAS-free since 2012 or 2014 or so, if I recall correctly.
- jabl 4y ago
  The Gore-Tex membrane itself is apparently(?) PFAS-free since some years, however Gore-Tex materials usually have a second waterproofing treatment (a surface coating called DWR, durable water repellent) which, drumroll, contains PFAS. Cheeky buggers, convincing people they had solved the problem years ago. ;) Apparently they have some improvement in the pipeline that will bring about really PFAS-free product in the next few years or so. https://saferchemicals.org/2021/09/30/gore-tex-manufacturer-announces-availability-of-new-pfas-free-membrane-but-still-uses-forever-chemicals-to-make-its-outdoor-apparel-and-gear/ https://saferchemicals.org/2021/09/30/gore-tex-manufacturer-...
  - staindk 4y ago
    Ah shit. Thanks for the link - good to know. Cheeky buggers indeed haha
- brnt 4y ago
  PFAS-free usually means PFAS-lookalike AFAIK.
  - DoingIsLearning 4y ago
    Same as the plastics marketing with the "BPA free" claim, they will just use some other Bisphenol and call it a day.
orangepurple 4y ago
It's sad because PTFE is the best dry lubricant but you can get close with Tungsten Disulfide nanoparticles. Hexagonal boron nitride is a good bicycle lubricant additive too and it can actually photocatalytically degrade environmental PFAS! https://ceramics.org/ceramic-tech-today/ceramic-video/video-boron-nitride-destroys-pfoa-genx https://ceramics.org/ceramic-tech-today/ceramic-video/video-...
- kragen 4y ago
  Tungsten disulfide is enormously more toxic than PTFE. Nanoparticles of anything are usually toxic. Boron nitride might be as nontoxic as PTFE but I wouldn't bet on it.
  - orangepurple 4y ago
    I have not seen any evidence showing tungsten disulfide is toxic for either people or the environment in general
    - kragen 4y ago
      Its toxicity isn't well characterized, and isn't especially high, but you can generally assume that metal sulfides with access to water produce either hydrogen sulfide, sulfuric acid, or both. In the case of tungsten disulfide it seems to be sulfuric acid, though the reaction is poorly characterized. Sulfate as such is pretty nontoxic (though it does cause diarrhea) but it doesn't take very much sulfuric acid to lower the pH to fatal levels.
  - ncmncm 4y ago
    I think you might be giving PTFE a stronger pass than it merits.
    - kragen 4y ago
      That's always possible, but why do you think so? The list of materials considered biocompatible enough for implants is pretty short, and PTFE is on that list.

staindk 4y ago

GORE-TEX materials had a PFAS problem but have been PFAS-free since 2012 or 2014 or so, if I recall correctly.

jabl 4y ago
The Gore-Tex membrane itself is apparently(?) PFAS-free since some years, however Gore-Tex materials usually have a second waterproofing treatment (a surface coating called DWR, durable water repellent) which, drumroll, contains PFAS. Cheeky buggers, convincing people they had solved the problem years ago. ;) Apparently they have some improvement in the pipeline that will bring about really PFAS-free product in the next few years or so. https://saferchemicals.org/2021/09/30/gore-tex-manufacturer-announces-availability-of-new-pfas-free-membrane-but-still-uses-forever-chemicals-to-make-its-outdoor-apparel-and-gear/ https://saferchemicals.org/2021/09/30/gore-tex-manufacturer-...
- staindk 4y ago
  Ah shit. Thanks for the link - good to know. Cheeky buggers indeed haha
brnt 4y ago
PFAS-free usually means PFAS-lookalike AFAIK.
- DoingIsLearning 4y ago
  Same as the plastics marketing with the "BPA free" claim, they will just use some other Bisphenol and call it a day.

orangepurple 4y ago

It's sad because PTFE is the best dry lubricant but you can get close with Tungsten Disulfide nanoparticles. Hexagonal boron nitride is a good bicycle lubricant additive too and it can actually photocatalytically degrade environmental PFAS! https://ceramics.org/ceramic-tech-today/ceramic-video/video-boron-nitride-destroys-pfoa-genx https://ceramics.org/ceramic-tech-today/ceramic-video/video-...

kragen 4y ago
Tungsten disulfide is enormously more toxic than PTFE. Nanoparticles of anything are usually toxic. Boron nitride might be as nontoxic as PTFE but I wouldn't bet on it.
- orangepurple 4y ago
  I have not seen any evidence showing tungsten disulfide is toxic for either people or the environment in general
  - kragen 4y ago
    Its toxicity isn't well characterized, and isn't especially high, but you can generally assume that metal sulfides with access to water produce either hydrogen sulfide, sulfuric acid, or both. In the case of tungsten disulfide it seems to be sulfuric acid, though the reaction is poorly characterized. Sulfate as such is pretty nontoxic (though it does cause diarrhea) but it doesn't take very much sulfuric acid to lower the pH to fatal levels.
- ncmncm 4y ago
  I think you might be giving PTFE a stronger pass than it merits.
  - kragen 4y ago
    That's always possible, but why do you think so? The list of materials considered biocompatible enough for implants is pretty short, and PTFE is on that list.