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Funny, I think the obsession with dismantling capitalism is a religion. "First, we must dismantle capitalism" is the Communist equivalent of "first, you must re

by klipt 4y ago

Funny, I think the obsession with dismantling capitalism is a religion. "First, we must dismantle capitalism" is the Communist equivalent of "first, you must renounce other gods and accept Jesus into your life". You talk of imagination but you haven't even described your solution or why it would be better than the well studied economics concepts of free markets with carbon taxes.

giraffe_lady 4y ago
Nor will I. Capitalism must be dismantled because of the horrors it perpetrates on living people today. If you want to defend those atrocities you may, but saying this is the best we can do is a kind of pessimism I don't find in myself. At the same time I'm not a scholar, historian, economist, politician, or powerful military leader. My capacity to conceive of another future, or author it, is constrained. My ability to condemn evil where I find it is not, however.
- JamesBarney 4y ago
  Despite not having studied history or economics or politics or war, surely you must see the risks of dismantling an economic system that has raised billions out of poverty without any type of replacement? It's like a diabetic stopping their insulin in the hopes something better will come along.
  - hnaccount141 4y ago
    That doesn't feel like a particularly charitable reading of their comment. I don't think they're suggesting we just burn everything down with no plan for what comes after, they're simply stating that they believe we need to find a better alternative while acknowledging that they don't know what that alternative is yet.
    - JamesBarney 4y ago
      They don't say "we should replace capitalism when stumble upon a better way of organizing human economic activity". Which is a pretty bland statement everyone agrees with. They said we must replace capitalism because of the horrors it perpetrates. That is a very strong statement. But I guess they could be saying "we are morally compelled to replace capitalism with a system that may or not work exist that may or may not solve the problems we have attributed to capitalism without showing that any other workable system fixes these problems, only that they happen to exist under our current system." Which doesn't strike me as the most useful criticism of capitalism.
anigbrowl 4y ago
"First, we must dismantle capitalism" is the Communist equivalent of The person you're replying to has already expressed doubt about whether it's a simple capitalism/communism dichotomy. Responding to a communist straw man of your own creation isn't helpful.

by klipt 4y ago

giraffe_lady 4y ago

Nor will I. Capitalism must be dismantled because of the horrors it perpetrates on living people today. If you want to defend those atrocities you may, but saying this is the best we can do is a kind of pessimism I don't find in myself. At the same time I'm not a scholar, historian, economist, politician, or powerful military leader. My capacity to conceive of another future, or author it, is constrained. My ability to condemn evil where I find it is not, however.

JamesBarney 4y ago
Despite not having studied history or economics or politics or war, surely you must see the risks of dismantling an economic system that has raised billions out of poverty without any type of replacement? It's like a diabetic stopping their insulin in the hopes something better will come along.
- hnaccount141 4y ago
  That doesn't feel like a particularly charitable reading of their comment. I don't think they're suggesting we just burn everything down with no plan for what comes after, they're simply stating that they believe we need to find a better alternative while acknowledging that they don't know what that alternative is yet.
  - JamesBarney 4y ago
    They don't say "we should replace capitalism when stumble upon a better way of organizing human economic activity". Which is a pretty bland statement everyone agrees with. They said we must replace capitalism because of the horrors it perpetrates. That is a very strong statement. But I guess they could be saying "we are morally compelled to replace capitalism with a system that may or not work exist that may or may not solve the problems we have attributed to capitalism without showing that any other workable system fixes these problems, only that they happen to exist under our current system." Which doesn't strike me as the most useful criticism of capitalism.

anigbrowl 4y ago

"First, we must dismantle capitalism" is the Communist equivalent of The person you're replying to has already expressed doubt about whether it's a simple capitalism/communism dichotomy. Responding to a communist straw man of your own creation isn't helpful.