5 ms·

It's sad that the only way to legalize is to force people to see a qualified therapist and take patented psychedelics in order to benefit from the experience, b

It's sad that the only way to legalize is to force people to see a qualified therapist and take patented psychedelics in order to benefit from the experience, but that's what the normies want. I've taken them with a therapist and it was meh because the doctor/patient relationship became weird under the influence. On the other hand I've had peak experiences by myself alone in a redwood forest on a fresh clear morning.

game-of-throws 4y ago
Is it really what "normies" want? Or is it just what drug companies/lobbyists want?
- labrador 4y ago
  In America we live in a democracy (last I checked) so it's the mainstream public who decides in the end. The people in various western states were the first to decide that marijuana should be legal. So by normies I mean mainstream voters who worry about their children having uncontrolled access to psychedelics. Normies believe rules are made to be followed and laws are there for a reason.
  - TylerE 4y ago
    Legalization would decrease underage availability, if anything. To quote an older friend who grew up in a dry county in Alabama: “The bootleggers didn’t care how old you were which was a good thing because I liked to drink and when I was 16 I looked 13”
- NickC25 4y ago
  Probably a mix of both. People who have some experience with drugs might want the benefit of the trip, but people who are a little more hesitant of the idea of mind-altering substances that last 8+ hours, such as LSD, might be more comfortable with some sort of watered-down experience backed by a major pharma brand and delivered by a licensed therapist. Of course, drug companies and lobbyists also dream of such outcomes.
  - criddell 4y ago
    Is an inexpensive drug that can "cure" PTSD after a very small number of doses a dream or nightmare for drug companies and lobbyists?
    - vorpalhex 4y ago
      Someone does lsd and shoots up a gas station. Was it the lsd or were they just already nutters? Nobody knows. Telling people to take strong drugs that are purity tested and in a supervised clinical setting is sensible, not some conspiracy.
    - NickC25 4y ago
      A nightmare - as said companies will have a fixed amount of revenue per patient, and it won't be recurring. Wall Street doesn't like companies that go against the ingrained model of "extremely expensive long term care as a service".
      - colinsane 4y ago
        what of the insurance companies though? if they no longer have to pay for recurring treatments, then more of the customer’s monthly premium can go to the shareholder. Wall Street gets their recurring revenue one way or another.
        criddell 4y ago
        Insurance is regulated. Typically they can only hold on to about 20% of the premium. If they collect too much money, you will get a rebate check mailed to you.
- criddell 4y ago
  I think at least some normies want that. I'm pretty much as normie as it gets and I've been watching Michael Pollan's series on Netflix How to Change Your Mind. One day I might want to try LSD, psilocybin, or MDMA (those are the episodes I've watched) but probably wouldn't until I could buy from an FDA regulated company. I don't trust dark web sources or the neighborhood guy who knows a guy.
  - km3r 4y ago
    You can and should test any substance you acquire from an unregulated source.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
  - engineer_22 4y ago
    Reach out to a friend and explain your situation, I'm sure you can find what you're looking for. These substances are ubiquitous. You might benefit from having a friend around while you're tripping, anyway.
  - gjs278 4y ago
  - tayo42 4y ago
    You can test what you buy with multiple reagent tests to make sure what you have is what you think it is. You can even send to labs if your extra paranoid. Also the dw runs on reviews. Some one selling something fake won't last long. Some have reputations from years of selling.
cflewis 4y ago
As a normie for whom ketamine treatment was a life changer, I can attest I would never ever have taken it without specialist supervision. And by specialist, I mean someone qualified, not some dude who has done plenty and has a K dealer. I would hazard there’s a large contingent of normies for whom the difference between supervised medical treatments that happen to be psychedelics and just the act of taking psychedelics is too large a leap. I personally hate the experience. The hate is part of the goal of being able to stop being in control all the time, but it doesn’t mean I like it. I also hate the hangover feeling afterwards, but the neuroplasticy benefits have been profound and so I keep doing the treatment. TL;DR benefits are there, normies should be allowed them too, non-normies I assume can still do black market work.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- labrador 4y ago
  I'm excited by what you describe and glad for it, but my sadness is that I could still be arrested by possessing mushrooms I picked for myself in a forest. I've been confronted by the authorities over this issue and believe me it is not a pleasant or healing experience.
- rjbwork 4y ago
  >non-normies I assume can still do black market work. Why do you want non-normies to have gun toting government thugs put them in a concrete box for 20 years because they don't want to get a permission slip to do the same thing you did?
standardUser 4y ago
Mushrooms are being lightly legalized in some cities and states. And while a lot of that is under the umbrella of mental health or spirituality, it is not being confined to medical environments. The normies appear to be losing that particular battle. And I think they're set to lose a lot more.
- labrador 4y ago
  There are some spots in American where that is very true, such as my hometown of Santa Cruz That said, I am not opposed to a therapeutic setting if that's what people who never tried them feel comfortable with Leading the psychedelic renaissance: https://maps.org/ https://maps.org/
heap_perms 4y ago
I think utopia would be to have both. That would mean legalization, and free distribution, but you can still take it in a therapy setting if you want to.
Gatsky 4y ago
These drugs clearly have risks. I know a case who took LSD and amputated his genitals during the trip (heard this first hand from the urologist who reattached said genitals). Sure, many or even most people will be fine, but some clearly won’t. Sure, he has a mental illness and took too much and was alone, but that’s exactly the issue. Do you have any suggestions how to make these drugs broadly safe without giving in to the supposedly unreasonable demands of the ‘normies’?
- labrador 4y ago
  From a reply I made later to a self-professed normie: I'm excited by what you describe [successful therapy] and glad for it, but my sadness is that I could still be arrested by possessing mushrooms I picked for myself in a forest. I've been confronted by the authorities over this issue and believe me it is not a pleasant or healing experience. A list off the top of my head mentally ill people should avoid: hand guns, rifles, poison, rope strong enough to hang oneself with, enough narcotics to go to sleep forever, dynamite, poison gas, large quantities of alcohol, religious cults, LSD...
  - Gatsky 4y ago
    Maybe I have a different perspective working in healthcare. People with mental illness tend to self-medicate with whatever is available, so you can’t lump dynamite and rope together with psychoactive drugs as the degree of actual harm is a different order of magnitude. As always, with any libertarian approach to regulation, it’s vulnerable people who suffer (mentally ill, poor, children) for the ideals of others. I find this is rarely a good deal in the final analysis.
    - amanaplanacanal 4y ago
      The alternative is throwing people in prison. Which seems to me to be a much worse deal.
      - Gatsky 4y ago
        This is one alternative the USA has chosen, but obviously not the only one.
galaxyLogic 4y ago
> doctor/patient relationship became weird under the influence That reminds me of a joke, "I said to the doctor, doctor, you got be patient with me"

game-of-throws 4y ago

Is it really what "normies" want? Or is it just what drug companies/lobbyists want?

labrador 4y ago
In America we live in a democracy (last I checked) so it's the mainstream public who decides in the end. The people in various western states were the first to decide that marijuana should be legal. So by normies I mean mainstream voters who worry about their children having uncontrolled access to psychedelics. Normies believe rules are made to be followed and laws are there for a reason.
- TylerE 4y ago
  Legalization would decrease underage availability, if anything. To quote an older friend who grew up in a dry county in Alabama: “The bootleggers didn’t care how old you were which was a good thing because I liked to drink and when I was 16 I looked 13”
NickC25 4y ago
Probably a mix of both. People who have some experience with drugs might want the benefit of the trip, but people who are a little more hesitant of the idea of mind-altering substances that last 8+ hours, such as LSD, might be more comfortable with some sort of watered-down experience backed by a major pharma brand and delivered by a licensed therapist. Of course, drug companies and lobbyists also dream of such outcomes.
- criddell 4y ago
  Is an inexpensive drug that can "cure" PTSD after a very small number of doses a dream or nightmare for drug companies and lobbyists?
  - vorpalhex 4y ago
    Someone does lsd and shoots up a gas station. Was it the lsd or were they just already nutters? Nobody knows. Telling people to take strong drugs that are purity tested and in a supervised clinical setting is sensible, not some conspiracy.
  - NickC25 4y ago
    A nightmare - as said companies will have a fixed amount of revenue per patient, and it won't be recurring. Wall Street doesn't like companies that go against the ingrained model of "extremely expensive long term care as a service".
    - colinsane 4y ago
      what of the insurance companies though? if they no longer have to pay for recurring treatments, then more of the customer’s monthly premium can go to the shareholder. Wall Street gets their recurring revenue one way or another.
      - criddell 4y ago
        Insurance is regulated. Typically they can only hold on to about 20% of the premium. If they collect too much money, you will get a rebate check mailed to you.
criddell 4y ago
I think at least some normies want that. I'm pretty much as normie as it gets and I've been watching Michael Pollan's series on Netflix How to Change Your Mind. One day I might want to try LSD, psilocybin, or MDMA (those are the episodes I've watched) but probably wouldn't until I could buy from an FDA regulated company. I don't trust dark web sources or the neighborhood guy who knows a guy.
- km3r 4y ago
  You can and should test any substance you acquire from an unregulated source.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
- engineer_22 4y ago
  Reach out to a friend and explain your situation, I'm sure you can find what you're looking for. These substances are ubiquitous. You might benefit from having a friend around while you're tripping, anyway.
- gjs278 4y ago
- tayo42 4y ago
  You can test what you buy with multiple reagent tests to make sure what you have is what you think it is. You can even send to labs if your extra paranoid. Also the dw runs on reviews. Some one selling something fake won't last long. Some have reputations from years of selling.

cflewis 4y ago

As a normie for whom ketamine treatment was a life changer, I can attest I would never ever have taken it without specialist supervision. And by specialist, I mean someone qualified, not some dude who has done plenty and has a K dealer. I would hazard there’s a large contingent of normies for whom the difference between supervised medical treatments that happen to be psychedelics and just the act of taking psychedelics is too large a leap. I personally hate the experience. The hate is part of the goal of being able to stop being in control all the time, but it doesn’t mean I like it. I also hate the hangover feeling afterwards, but the neuroplasticy benefits have been profound and so I keep doing the treatment. TL;DR benefits are there, normies should be allowed them too, non-normies I assume can still do black market work.

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
labrador 4y ago
I'm excited by what you describe and glad for it, but my sadness is that I could still be arrested by possessing mushrooms I picked for myself in a forest. I've been confronted by the authorities over this issue and believe me it is not a pleasant or healing experience.
rjbwork 4y ago
>non-normies I assume can still do black market work. Why do you want non-normies to have gun toting government thugs put them in a concrete box for 20 years because they don't want to get a permission slip to do the same thing you did?

standardUser 4y ago

Mushrooms are being lightly legalized in some cities and states. And while a lot of that is under the umbrella of mental health or spirituality, it is not being confined to medical environments. The normies appear to be losing that particular battle. And I think they're set to lose a lot more.

labrador 4y ago
There are some spots in American where that is very true, such as my hometown of Santa Cruz That said, I am not opposed to a therapeutic setting if that's what people who never tried them feel comfortable with Leading the psychedelic renaissance: https://maps.org/ https://maps.org/

heap_perms 4y ago

I think utopia would be to have both. That would mean legalization, and free distribution, but you can still take it in a therapy setting if you want to.

Gatsky 4y ago

These drugs clearly have risks. I know a case who took LSD and amputated his genitals during the trip (heard this first hand from the urologist who reattached said genitals). Sure, many or even most people will be fine, but some clearly won’t. Sure, he has a mental illness and took too much and was alone, but that’s exactly the issue. Do you have any suggestions how to make these drugs broadly safe without giving in to the supposedly unreasonable demands of the ‘normies’?

labrador 4y ago
From a reply I made later to a self-professed normie: I'm excited by what you describe [successful therapy] and glad for it, but my sadness is that I could still be arrested by possessing mushrooms I picked for myself in a forest. I've been confronted by the authorities over this issue and believe me it is not a pleasant or healing experience. A list off the top of my head mentally ill people should avoid: hand guns, rifles, poison, rope strong enough to hang oneself with, enough narcotics to go to sleep forever, dynamite, poison gas, large quantities of alcohol, religious cults, LSD...
- Gatsky 4y ago
  Maybe I have a different perspective working in healthcare. People with mental illness tend to self-medicate with whatever is available, so you can’t lump dynamite and rope together with psychoactive drugs as the degree of actual harm is a different order of magnitude. As always, with any libertarian approach to regulation, it’s vulnerable people who suffer (mentally ill, poor, children) for the ideals of others. I find this is rarely a good deal in the final analysis.
  - amanaplanacanal 4y ago
    The alternative is throwing people in prison. Which seems to me to be a much worse deal.
    - Gatsky 4y ago
      This is one alternative the USA has chosen, but obviously not the only one.

galaxyLogic 4y ago

> doctor/patient relationship became weird under the influence That reminds me of a joke, "I said to the doctor, doctor, you got be patient with me"