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1. Taiwan never declared independence. 2. Mainland China is not a dictatorship. There are democratic processes: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elections_in_C

by k_sze 4y ago

1. Taiwan never declared independence. 2. Mainland China is not a dictatorship. There *are* democratic processes: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elections_in_China. You just basically never hear about them in Western media.

josephcsible 4y ago
Nominally having elections doesn't make you not a dictatorship. China's elections are a sham. It's a foregone conclusion who's going to win them all.
- colejohnson66 4y ago
  For an extreme example, the Democratic People's Republic of Korea (commonly known as North Korea) also has elections, but everyone with a brain knows they're a sham.
  - GekkePrutser 4y ago
    Or the Deutsche "Demokratische" Republik. Mock elections seem to be a staple of many dictatorships. Not sure why, it's not like they're fooling anyone either domestically or internationally.
- k_sze 4y ago
  That's because China is a meritocracy. Everybody has to work their way up from the very bottom in order to prove their worth - even people with connections will fail if they can't prove their worth. And so you don't end up with random dudes with no qualification whatsoever trying to run for important seats.
NovemberWhiskey 4y ago
>2. Mainland China is not a dictatorship. ... in practical terms, it's legally a one-party state in an authoritarian system of government - this is broadly recognized as the "one-party dictatorship" model.
bokchoi 4y ago
Like it or not, Taiwan is functionally independent. They have their own currency, passports, military, elections.
- k_sze 4y ago
  So what? Hong Kong and Macau also have their own currency, passport, and elections. And they are still part of China. Nobody says the PRC will just nullify Taiwan's currency, etc. upon unification. All they are asking, basically, is that Taiwan not become a bastion for the US.
humanistbot 4y ago
> Mainland China is not a dictatorship. There are democratic processes Get this propaganda out of here. When there is only a single political party allowed and all candidates for that party have to be approved by the party leadership, you don't have a democracy. From the wiki article you yourself cited: "the CCP tightly controls the nomination and election processes at every level in the people's congress system... the tiered, indirect electoral mechanism in the People's Congress system ensures that deputies at the highest levels face no semblance of electoral accountability to the Chinese citizenry."
- k_sze 4y ago
  Whoever wrote that on Wikipedia clearly does not understand how accountability works in China, nor follows news in China, and is only speaking from theory. If you follow the news in China, you see elected officials promptly getting fired for messing up in their governance, some also get prosecuted if corruption is involved.
  - nottorp 4y ago
    > If you follow the news in China, you see elected officials promptly getting fired for messing up in their governance, some also get prosecuted if corruption is involved. So was imperial China. They're the first in history to have some competence examinations for holding public offices. Makes them a competent monarchy/dictatorship not a democracy. Edit: How do you define "messing up in their governance"? You trust the press articles published inside China? As in, inside the great firewall? Why do you think it's there?
    - k_sze 4y ago
      Because the Western media outside the GFW is full of lies and Western propaganda. Having lived through the Hong Kong 2019 riots, I know what it’s like. The GFW is there to filter away all the distraction so that most people can stay unbothered and just go on with their lives. BTW, it is a lie that VPNs are illegal in China. That’s why you see so many what some call “bots” and “wumao” on Twitter. Those who really want to weather the waters outside the GFW are allowed to, at the tiny cost of buying a VPN. Most people don’t bother.
nottorp 4y ago
Thoughts like these are hillarious when you've lived part of your life under the Romanian communist regime. Yes, we had elections too. I was too young to remember the details, but I'm sure no adult gave a shit about them because they were pointless. Naivety would be charming if it weren't dangerous. You also believe what the seller is telling you about the product? Esp in the US where any lie is legal if you're trying to sell something...

1. Taiwan never declared independence. 2. Mainland China is not a dictatorship. There *are* democratic processes: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elections_in_C

by k_sze 4y ago

josephcsible 4y ago

Nominally having elections doesn't make you not a dictatorship. China's elections are a sham. It's a foregone conclusion who's going to win them all.

colejohnson66 4y ago
For an extreme example, the Democratic People's Republic of Korea (commonly known as North Korea) also has elections, but everyone with a brain knows they're a sham.
- GekkePrutser 4y ago
  Or the Deutsche "Demokratische" Republik. Mock elections seem to be a staple of many dictatorships. Not sure why, it's not like they're fooling anyone either domestically or internationally.
k_sze 4y ago
That's because China is a meritocracy. Everybody has to work their way up from the very bottom in order to prove their worth - even people with connections will fail if they can't prove their worth. And so you don't end up with random dudes with no qualification whatsoever trying to run for important seats.

NovemberWhiskey 4y ago

>2. Mainland China is not a dictatorship. ... in practical terms, it's legally a one-party state in an authoritarian system of government - this is broadly recognized as the "one-party dictatorship" model.

bokchoi 4y ago

Like it or not, Taiwan is functionally independent. They have their own currency, passports, military, elections.

k_sze 4y ago
So what? Hong Kong and Macau also have their own currency, passport, and elections. And they are still part of China. Nobody says the PRC will just nullify Taiwan's currency, etc. upon unification. All they are asking, basically, is that Taiwan not become a bastion for the US.

humanistbot 4y ago

> Mainland China is not a dictatorship. There are democratic processes Get this propaganda out of here. When there is only a single political party allowed and all candidates for that party have to be approved by the party leadership, you don't have a democracy. From the wiki article you yourself cited: "the CCP tightly controls the nomination and election processes at every level in the people's congress system... the tiered, indirect electoral mechanism in the People's Congress system ensures that deputies at the highest levels face no semblance of electoral accountability to the Chinese citizenry."

k_sze 4y ago
Whoever wrote that on Wikipedia clearly does not understand how accountability works in China, nor follows news in China, and is only speaking from theory. If you follow the news in China, you see elected officials promptly getting fired for messing up in their governance, some also get prosecuted if corruption is involved.
- nottorp 4y ago
  > If you follow the news in China, you see elected officials promptly getting fired for messing up in their governance, some also get prosecuted if corruption is involved. So was imperial China. They're the first in history to have some competence examinations for holding public offices. Makes them a competent monarchy/dictatorship not a democracy. Edit: How do you define "messing up in their governance"? You trust the press articles published inside China? As in, inside the great firewall? Why do you think it's there?
  - k_sze 4y ago
    Because the Western media outside the GFW is full of lies and Western propaganda. Having lived through the Hong Kong 2019 riots, I know what it’s like. The GFW is there to filter away all the distraction so that most people can stay unbothered and just go on with their lives. BTW, it is a lie that VPNs are illegal in China. That’s why you see so many what some call “bots” and “wumao” on Twitter. Those who really want to weather the waters outside the GFW are allowed to, at the tiny cost of buying a VPN. Most people don’t bother.

nottorp 4y ago

Thoughts like these are hillarious when you've lived part of your life under the Romanian communist regime. Yes, we had elections too. I was too young to remember the details, but I'm sure no adult gave a shit about them because they were pointless. Naivety would be charming if it weren't dangerous. You also believe what the seller is telling you about the product? Esp in the US where any lie is legal if you're trying to sell something...