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> In the US, race is very much tied to socioeconomic status and class. Great! So looking at socioeconomic status will also address socioeconomic status caused

by nailer 4y ago

> In the US, race is very much tied to socioeconomic status and class. Great! So looking at socioeconomic status will also address socioeconomic status caused by racial discrimination. Glad you understand and agree with the parent.

tomrod 4y ago
How do you identify socioeconomic class? Tax returns? Paystubs? Accounting for wealth generally? Wealthy folks typically don't make a large wage, they receive a dividend on investments and large loans against collateral. Note that this is critical to consider if we are to discriminate based on socioeconomic class.
- yucky 4y ago
  >How do you identify socioeconomic class? How do you identify race? After all, it's just a social construct. We're not DNA testing and doing the one-drop rule are we? Its' self-reported. At least with socioeconomics we can look at household income and tax returns.
  - tomrod 4y ago
    Got it. So we likely agree that wealth identification will be difficult here if we're only going with household income and tax returns. It's definitely a thorny process whichever factor one adopts to benchmark process outcomes against.
    - yucky 4y ago
      No, it's far easier to determine socioeconomics. After all, if you're going to favor a specific race, how do you prove their race? What percentage of their bloodlines needs to be from that race? We really start getting into yellow badge territory eventually, and at best all it does is create racial animosity and resentment, which we see now: https://news.gallup.com/poll/318851/perceptions-white-black-relations-sink-new-low.aspx https://news.gallup.com/poll/318851/perceptions-white-black-... Meanwhile, everybody pays taxes so we have the data we need to not use racial discrimination.
      - tomrod 4y ago
        > Meanwhile, everybody pays taxes so we have the data we need to not use racial discrimination. Actually, the very wealthy _don't_ pay a ton in taxes, depending on how their wealth is invested and distributed. What wealthy folks often do is to take lending against their assets, giving them liquidity. This is not taxable income.
        yucky 4y ago
        tomrod 4y ago
        > Your take on taxes is incorrect It isn't, at least in the US. Straight from the horse's mouth: https://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/briefing-room/2021/09/23/new-omb-cea-report-billionaires-pay-an-average-federal-individual-income-tax-rate-of-just-8-2/ https://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/briefing-room/2021/09/23/new-... Talk to your friends in Wealth Management, they can confirm. Tax minimization via loopholes is active and thriving.
        dang 4y ago
        We've banned this account for using HN primarily for political/ideological battle and ignoring our request to stop. You can't do that here, regardless of which politics or ideology you're into. It's not what this site is for, and it destroys what it is for. If you don't want to be banned, you're welcome to email hn@ycombinator.com and give us reason to believe that you'll follow the rules in the future. They're here: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html.
        akomtu 4y ago
        This little argument is a great summary of what's going on in our society: the rich are shifting the public attention from their wealth to skin color of the poor. "Weath is hard to quantify and we should stop talking about it, while skin color is very apparent and the Social Justice Book we've given to you clearly states that skin color is more important than money."
- nailer 4y ago
  Council tax bracket is how we do it in the UK. Is there an American equivalent? Some kind of proxy for land value?
- s1artibartfast 4y ago
  These are the same exact metrics used to demonstrate that blacks are disadvantaged.
- belorn 4y ago
  Every social research paper must more or less identify and classify socioeconomic status in order to do proper science. What ever social concept a researcher is studying, the first thing people will ask is: "did you account for socioeconomic status?" This PDF looks like a good start if you want to see how it get measured during research: https://obssr.od.nih.gov/sites/obssr/files/Measuring-Socioeconomic-Status.pdf https://obssr.od.nih.gov/sites/obssr/files/Measuring-Socioec...

by nailer 4y ago

tomrod 4y ago

How do you identify socioeconomic class? Tax returns? Paystubs? Accounting for wealth generally? Wealthy folks typically don't make a large wage, they receive a dividend on investments and large loans against collateral. Note that this is critical to consider if we are to discriminate based on socioeconomic class.

yucky 4y ago
>How do you identify socioeconomic class? How do you identify race? After all, it's just a social construct. We're not DNA testing and doing the one-drop rule are we? Its' self-reported. At least with socioeconomics we can look at household income and tax returns.
- tomrod 4y ago
  Got it. So we likely agree that wealth identification will be difficult here if we're only going with household income and tax returns. It's definitely a thorny process whichever factor one adopts to benchmark process outcomes against.
  - yucky 4y ago
    No, it's far easier to determine socioeconomics. After all, if you're going to favor a specific race, how do you prove their race? What percentage of their bloodlines needs to be from that race? We really start getting into yellow badge territory eventually, and at best all it does is create racial animosity and resentment, which we see now: https://news.gallup.com/poll/318851/perceptions-white-black-relations-sink-new-low.aspx https://news.gallup.com/poll/318851/perceptions-white-black-... Meanwhile, everybody pays taxes so we have the data we need to not use racial discrimination.
    - tomrod 4y ago
      > Meanwhile, everybody pays taxes so we have the data we need to not use racial discrimination. Actually, the very wealthy _don't_ pay a ton in taxes, depending on how their wealth is invested and distributed. What wealthy folks often do is to take lending against their assets, giving them liquidity. This is not taxable income.
      - yucky 4y ago
        tomrod 4y ago
        > Your take on taxes is incorrect It isn't, at least in the US. Straight from the horse's mouth: https://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/briefing-room/2021/09/23/new-omb-cea-report-billionaires-pay-an-average-federal-individual-income-tax-rate-of-just-8-2/ https://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/briefing-room/2021/09/23/new-... Talk to your friends in Wealth Management, they can confirm. Tax minimization via loopholes is active and thriving.
        dang 4y ago
        We've banned this account for using HN primarily for political/ideological battle and ignoring our request to stop. You can't do that here, regardless of which politics or ideology you're into. It's not what this site is for, and it destroys what it is for. If you don't want to be banned, you're welcome to email hn@ycombinator.com and give us reason to believe that you'll follow the rules in the future. They're here: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html.
      - akomtu 4y ago
        This little argument is a great summary of what's going on in our society: the rich are shifting the public attention from their wealth to skin color of the poor. "Weath is hard to quantify and we should stop talking about it, while skin color is very apparent and the Social Justice Book we've given to you clearly states that skin color is more important than money."
nailer 4y ago
Council tax bracket is how we do it in the UK. Is there an American equivalent? Some kind of proxy for land value?
s1artibartfast 4y ago
These are the same exact metrics used to demonstrate that blacks are disadvantaged.
belorn 4y ago
Every social research paper must more or less identify and classify socioeconomic status in order to do proper science. What ever social concept a researcher is studying, the first thing people will ask is: "did you account for socioeconomic status?" This PDF looks like a good start if you want to see how it get measured during research: https://obssr.od.nih.gov/sites/obssr/files/Measuring-Socioeconomic-Status.pdf https://obssr.od.nih.gov/sites/obssr/files/Measuring-Socioec...