4 ms·

In the US, race is very much tied to socioeconomic status and class. It's not a 100% indicator, but its essentially what the quoteunquote CRT in schools was me

In the US, race is very much tied to socioeconomic status and class. It's not a 100% indicator, but its essentially what the quoteunquote CRT in schools was meant to show. Many black communities are not poor simply because they're poor, but of on-the-books policies of redlining, discrimination, and overpolicing that enabled a wealth gap to form in the post-war period. Many white families were able to buy houses, build generational wealth, etc while many black communities were prevented from buying homes, getting loans, all the way to their neighborhoods being wholesale demolished for highways, malls, power plants, etc. Being colorblind has the byproduct of ignoring real material policies and historic events that contribute to modern conditions. It is a fact that generational wealth enables rich students to afford SAT prep classes, have parents that can take them to extra curricular activities, and have the ability to not need a job during their teenage years. Race-based affirmative action is meant to equal out these factors to an extent. Whether it works as intended is another matter. Cases of "Working hard" and "picking yourself up by the bootstraps" is statistically negligible in the grand scheme.

nailer 4y ago
> In the US, race is very much tied to socioeconomic status and class. Great! So looking at socioeconomic status will also address socioeconomic status caused by racial discrimination. Glad you understand and agree with the parent.
- tomrod 4y ago
  How do you identify socioeconomic class? Tax returns? Paystubs? Accounting for wealth generally? Wealthy folks typically don't make a large wage, they receive a dividend on investments and large loans against collateral. Note that this is critical to consider if we are to discriminate based on socioeconomic class.
  - yucky 4y ago
    >How do you identify socioeconomic class? How do you identify race? After all, it's just a social construct. We're not DNA testing and doing the one-drop rule are we? Its' self-reported. At least with socioeconomics we can look at household income and tax returns.
    - tomrod 4y ago
      Got it. So we likely agree that wealth identification will be difficult here if we're only going with household income and tax returns. It's definitely a thorny process whichever factor one adopts to benchmark process outcomes against.
      - yucky 4y ago
        No, it's far easier to determine socioeconomics. After all, if you're going to favor a specific race, how do you prove their race? What percentage of their bloodlines needs to be from that race? We really start getting into yellow badge territory eventually, and at best all it does is create racial animosity and resentment, which we see now: https://news.gallup.com/poll/318851/perceptions-white-black-relations-sink-new-low.aspx https://news.gallup.com/poll/318851/perceptions-white-black-... Meanwhile, everybody pays taxes so we have the data we need to not use racial discrimination.
        tomrod 4y ago
        > Meanwhile, everybody pays taxes so we have the data we need to not use racial discrimination. Actually, the very wealthy _don't_ pay a ton in taxes, depending on how their wealth is invested and distributed. What wealthy folks often do is to take lending against their assets, giving them liquidity. This is not taxable income.
        yucky 4y ago
        tomrod 4y ago
        > Your take on taxes is incorrect It isn't, at least in the US. Straight from the horse's mouth: https://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/briefing-room/2021/09/23/new-omb-cea-report-billionaires-pay-an-average-federal-individual-income-tax-rate-of-just-8-2/ https://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/briefing-room/2021/09/23/new-... Talk to your friends in Wealth Management, they can confirm. Tax minimization via loopholes is active and thriving.
  - nailer 4y ago
    Council tax bracket is how we do it in the UK. Is there an American equivalent? Some kind of proxy for land value?
  - s1artibartfast 4y ago
    These are the same exact metrics used to demonstrate that blacks are disadvantaged.
  - belorn 4y ago
    Every social research paper must more or less identify and classify socioeconomic status in order to do proper science. What ever social concept a researcher is studying, the first thing people will ask is: "did you account for socioeconomic status?" This PDF looks like a good start if you want to see how it get measured during research: https://obssr.od.nih.gov/sites/obssr/files/Measuring-Socioeconomic-Status.pdf https://obssr.od.nih.gov/sites/obssr/files/Measuring-Socioec...
golemotron 4y ago
> In the US, race is very much tied to socioeconomic status and class. In much of the world, really. The US isn't particularly bad compared to most countries that way.
megaman821 4y ago
In this theory where do Asians, South Asians and Jews fit in? Most do not come from generational wealth. Many are recent immigrants to the US, and actually supporting family members from their homeland (basically the opposite of generational wealth).
slowmovintarget 4y ago
Then how do you explain immigrants who within two generations begin generating wealth? What the economics show is that they come here with nothing. They scrape by, working whatever jobs they can. They make sure their kids do well in school. Their kids go to college and start businesses, become doctors, become lawyers... all in the same system you're claiming is holding people that look just like them down. Something about the assertions made by CRT must be incorrect given what we see of the facts.

nailer 4y ago

> In the US, race is very much tied to socioeconomic status and class. Great! So looking at socioeconomic status will also address socioeconomic status caused by racial discrimination. Glad you understand and agree with the parent.

tomrod 4y ago
How do you identify socioeconomic class? Tax returns? Paystubs? Accounting for wealth generally? Wealthy folks typically don't make a large wage, they receive a dividend on investments and large loans against collateral. Note that this is critical to consider if we are to discriminate based on socioeconomic class.
- yucky 4y ago
  >How do you identify socioeconomic class? How do you identify race? After all, it's just a social construct. We're not DNA testing and doing the one-drop rule are we? Its' self-reported. At least with socioeconomics we can look at household income and tax returns.
  - tomrod 4y ago
    Got it. So we likely agree that wealth identification will be difficult here if we're only going with household income and tax returns. It's definitely a thorny process whichever factor one adopts to benchmark process outcomes against.
    - yucky 4y ago
      No, it's far easier to determine socioeconomics. After all, if you're going to favor a specific race, how do you prove their race? What percentage of their bloodlines needs to be from that race? We really start getting into yellow badge territory eventually, and at best all it does is create racial animosity and resentment, which we see now: https://news.gallup.com/poll/318851/perceptions-white-black-relations-sink-new-low.aspx https://news.gallup.com/poll/318851/perceptions-white-black-... Meanwhile, everybody pays taxes so we have the data we need to not use racial discrimination.
      - tomrod 4y ago
        > Meanwhile, everybody pays taxes so we have the data we need to not use racial discrimination. Actually, the very wealthy _don't_ pay a ton in taxes, depending on how their wealth is invested and distributed. What wealthy folks often do is to take lending against their assets, giving them liquidity. This is not taxable income.
        yucky 4y ago
        tomrod 4y ago
        > Your take on taxes is incorrect It isn't, at least in the US. Straight from the horse's mouth: https://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/briefing-room/2021/09/23/new-omb-cea-report-billionaires-pay-an-average-federal-individual-income-tax-rate-of-just-8-2/ https://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/briefing-room/2021/09/23/new-... Talk to your friends in Wealth Management, they can confirm. Tax minimization via loopholes is active and thriving.
- nailer 4y ago
  Council tax bracket is how we do it in the UK. Is there an American equivalent? Some kind of proxy for land value?
- s1artibartfast 4y ago
  These are the same exact metrics used to demonstrate that blacks are disadvantaged.
- belorn 4y ago
  Every social research paper must more or less identify and classify socioeconomic status in order to do proper science. What ever social concept a researcher is studying, the first thing people will ask is: "did you account for socioeconomic status?" This PDF looks like a good start if you want to see how it get measured during research: https://obssr.od.nih.gov/sites/obssr/files/Measuring-Socioeconomic-Status.pdf https://obssr.od.nih.gov/sites/obssr/files/Measuring-Socioec...

golemotron 4y ago

> In the US, race is very much tied to socioeconomic status and class. In much of the world, really. The US isn't particularly bad compared to most countries that way.

megaman821 4y ago

In this theory where do Asians, South Asians and Jews fit in? Most do not come from generational wealth. Many are recent immigrants to the US, and actually supporting family members from their homeland (basically the opposite of generational wealth).

slowmovintarget 4y ago

Then how do you explain immigrants who within two generations begin generating wealth? What the economics show is that they come here with nothing. They scrape by, working whatever jobs they can. They make sure their kids do well in school. Their kids go to college and start businesses, become doctors, become lawyers... all in the same system you're claiming is holding people that look just like them down. Something about the assertions made by CRT must be incorrect given what we see of the facts.